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From: Tim X <timx@nospam.dev.null>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: basic question: going back to dired
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:25:01 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87myk828zm.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.15176.1216737886.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org

"Juanma Barranquero" <lekktu@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 14:34, Miles Bader <miles.bader@necel.com> wrote:
>
>> It's not that "keybinding" is somehow extra good, it's that "shortcut"
>> is unusually bad.
>
> Agreed. I don't like Xah Lee's proposals. But I think that he's right
> that Emacs' use of outdated terminology sometimes hampers adoption by
> new users.
>
so what? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what does it really
matter if new users have a bit of a learning curve? Why should emacs
appear to be just like any other text editor? While probably sounding
provocative, how many new uses who are not prepared to learn emacs
terminology are actually going to contribute anything? If they don't
contribute anything, what does it matter if there is only 1 a year or
100 a week? 

Taking things in another direction, could it not be that as emacs is
significantly different in approach, functionality and extensibility
than nearly all other editors, might not a different terminology
actually help new uses grasp that this is not just another editor?
There could be an argument that making users learn from scratch and with
different terminology will help because it makes them adopt a new
mindset and stops them from comparing it to what they already know?

Tim




-- 
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au


  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-07-23 10:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 170+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-07-21 18:59 basic question: going back to dired Ben Aurel
2008-07-21 23:21 ` Bastien
     [not found] ` <mailman.15133.1216682503.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22  6:04   ` Xah
2008-07-22  8:26     ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 11:29       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 16:53         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 22:58           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:32             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:38               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:56                 ` Bastien Guerry
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15212.1216767522.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  7:46             ` Miles Bader
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15157.1216726173.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 16:13         ` Evans Winner
2008-07-22 22:49           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23  9:46           ` Tim X
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15210.1216766981.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  7:39             ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  9:04               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15333.1216890300.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 10:38                 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24 12:36                 ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:38                   ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15354.1216910341.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  4:38                     ` Tim X
2008-07-26  6:18                       ` William Case
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.15437.1217053103.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  8:58                         ` Tim X
2008-07-22  9:46     ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 11:22       ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]         ` <op.ueoy5npciz1hxh@el-juanek>
2008-07-22 12:14           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 13:56             ` Dan Davison
2008-07-22 15:07               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]             ` <op.ueo4z1peiz1hxh@el-juanek>
2008-07-22 15:03               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 17:14                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-24  1:38                 ` Juanma
2008-07-24  8:42                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24  9:28                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-24  9:41                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 21:43                     ` Juanma
2008-07-24 21:49                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24 22:34                         ` Juanma
2008-07-24 22:39                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:07                             ` Juanma
2008-07-24 23:13                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 23:42                                 ` Juanma
2008-07-24 23:45                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.15313.1216863499.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:30                   ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:30                     ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15352.1216909820.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  2:23                       ` Tim X
2008-07-31  0:04                         ` Sean Sieger
2008-07-31  9:21                         ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15179.1216738989.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 15:25                 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-24  7:19                 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-24  9:02                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-24 11:12                     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-24 12:32                   ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:31                     ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15353.1216909918.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 15:19                       ` xraysmalevich
2008-07-24 15:43                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-24 16:03                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-25 14:13                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26  4:33                       ` Tim X
2008-07-31  9:27                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-31 11:22                           ` Juan Manuel Menéndez Bellón
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.15637.1217496478.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 13:59                           ` Tim X
2008-07-31 14:43                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 14:56                               ` Thierry Volpiatto
2008-07-31 15:03                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 15:12                                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.15652.1217516352.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-04 10:48                                 ` Sacha Chua
2008-08-04 14:30                                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15332.1216890172.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 17:59                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15160.1216728865.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 12:34             ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 12:52               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-22 13:47                 ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 14:03                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23  1:29                     ` Kevin Rodgers
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15173.1216735457.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 14:50                     ` xraysmalevich
2008-07-22 14:44               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 17:06                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:04                   ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15176.1216737886.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-23 10:25                 ` Tim X [this message]
2008-07-23 11:09                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 11:11                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23 11:39                     ` Bastien
2008-07-23 11:44                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 12:34                         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 12:56                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 13:34                             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 13:41                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-23 13:49                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-23 15:26                                 ` Bastien
2008-07-23 15:40                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.15259.1216813201.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:18                       ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:15                         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-26 11:06                           ` Bastien
2008-07-24 15:30                         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.15356.1216913461.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  2:17                           ` Tim X
2008-07-26  6:32                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.15438.1217053962.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  8:31                               ` Tim X
2008-07-26  8:49                                 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:24                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-26  9:37                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.15439.1217062193.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  9:31                                   ` Tim X
2008-07-26 10:43                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15256.1216811364.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  9:47                     ` Tim X
2008-07-24 10:56                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15257.1216811483.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 12:17                     ` Tim X
2008-07-24 14:09                       ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-26 11:06                         ` Bastien
2008-07-31  9:40                           ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]                       ` <mailman.15349.1216908598.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-26  1:59                         ` Tim X
2008-07-31  9:00                           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-23 10:16             ` Tim X
2008-07-23 10:59               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15255.1216810786.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24  9:39                 ` Tim X
2008-07-22 16:58         ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:03           ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 23:49             ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 23:56               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15213.1216767793.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-25  4:48             ` p.daniels
2008-07-25  5:31             ` p.daniels
2008-07-26 11:06               ` Bastien
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15156.1216725748.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 11:50         ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 14:42           ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15175.1216737770.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 14:49             ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 15:53               ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]               ` <mailman.15182.1216742022.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 16:21                 ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 16:51                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.15185.1216745488.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 21:47                     ` Phil Carmody
2008-07-22 12:50     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 13:05     ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-07-22 20:44     ` Xah
2008-07-22 22:00       ` Bastien
2008-07-24  1:30         ` Juanma
2008-07-22 23:21       ` Xiao-Yong Jin
2008-07-22 23:43         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15215.1216768919.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22 23:36         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2008-07-23  8:29           ` Alexey Pustyntsev
     [not found]           ` <mailman.15249.1216802538.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-23  9:57             ` Thorsten Bonow
2008-07-24 11:03       ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15341.1216897420.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-24 11:21         ` Phil Carmody
     [not found]     ` <mailman.15164.1216731108.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31  8:55       ` Xah
     [not found] <mailman.15123.1216681940.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-22  5:56 ` Xah
2008-07-22  8:23   ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 11:13     ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 16:46       ` Bastien Guerry
2008-07-22 22:51         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-07-22 11:01   ` Xah
     [not found]   ` <mailman.15143.1216715014.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31  9:57     ` Xah
2008-07-31 12:28       ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-07-31 13:37         ` Xah
2008-08-01  8:05         ` Nikolaj Schumacher
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15691.1217577959.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-01 11:15           ` Xah
2008-08-01 15:23             ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-08-01 11:40           ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-01 21:43             ` Cor Gest
2008-07-31 14:27       ` Nikolaj Schumacher
2008-08-06 20:38       ` Juanma
2008-08-06 20:57         ` Juanma Barranquero
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15958.1218056266.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-08 14:07           ` Chris McMahan
     [not found]       ` <mailman.15955.1218055101.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-08-07  5:12         ` Tim X
2008-07-22  7:14 ` Miles Bader
2008-07-22 10:58 ` nakkaya
2008-07-22 12:12   ` Thierry Volpiatto
2008-07-26 13:06 ` Colin S. Miller
     [not found]   ` <2e5864060807311010macf1b5bq439a73fc431fac04@mail.gmail.com>
2008-07-31 20:26     ` Colin S. Miller
     [not found] <mailman.15641.1217503359.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 12:37 ` Chris McMahan
2008-07-31 13:04   ` Xah
2008-07-31 14:35     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]     ` <mailman.15650.1217514954.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 15:54       ` Xah
2008-07-31 16:45         ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
     [not found]         ` <mailman.15660.1217522719.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-07-31 17:05           ` Xah
2008-07-31 17:45             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-07-31 19:00             ` Sean Sieger

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