From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: face for non-ASCII characters Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:18:31 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87mxjjpal4.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <8739linpib.fsf@lifelogs.com> <86815A0AB7354FA3874096E7B5FA2F08@us.oracle.com> <87tydym9fs.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lizam8zt.fsf@lifelogs.com> <878vv7imqp.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87k4erh6q3.fsf@lifelogs.com> <874o5uie42.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87y635dll9.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87r58vbj7o.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87fwpba03q.fsf@lifelogs.com> <874o5rqr5z.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1303420733 32029 80.91.229.12 (21 Apr 2011 21:18:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:18:53 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 21 23:18:49 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gz-0004By-73 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:18:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44376 helo=lists2.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gy-00082r-Gd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:18:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:44346) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gw-00082l-Th for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:18:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gv-0006KO-Sh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:18:46 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:44854) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gv-0006KI-Hs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:18:45 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QD1Gu-00048c-5u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:18:44 +0200 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:18:44 +0200 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:18:44 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 66 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110016 (No Gnus v0.16) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:hLID+3Pd8Pd8MshMYHK8g+IEUCw= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:138629 Archived-At: On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:53:01 +0200 Lennart Borgman wrote: LB> 2011/4/21 Ted Zlatanov : >>>> I'm not sure what you mean about dynamic loading. >> LB> What I mean here is what can be used in nXhtml: If you (require LB> 'somelib) and somelib.el is not on your computer then you can have it LB> automatically downloaded from nXhtml repository (with a possibility to LB> check the code before actually installing it). >> >> I would be strongly opposed to opportunistic package installations in >> general, although nXhtml can use it internally of course. LB> Why is the word opportunistic used by you here? I do not have time to LB> discuss if you do not take it seriously. Please describe exactly what LB> it is you do not like instead. "Opportunistic" means it's installed when you need it as you said. "Dynamic loading" is a term easily confused with the Unix dynamic libraries, that's why I avoided it. I am not using "opportunistic" disparagingly. I am opposed to opportunistic installs because they destabilize the working environment. They may make sense in a tightly controlled environment, but for a general audience (all Emacs users) I think they are a bad idea. Most package managers I've used (Perl, Python, Ruby, Emacs, XEmacs, Unix distributions) do static installs. This is different from autoloading, where you know the library is available and you've scanned it for autoload cookies. LB> You are greatly exaggerating. The difference between ELPA and nXhtml LB> here is that nXhtml will propose that you can install a library to get LB> things working while ELPA will not do that. ELPA will install all the dependencies when it installs the library. So when the library is installed, you won't have surprises later. If you're talking about optional add-ons and plugins, that's a different discussion :) As I said, you should make the opportunistic/dynamic loading proposal and maybe it will be accepted. While it seems to me like a bad idea, it's entirely possible it turns out to be good! We won't know until it's discussed directly. LB> At first sight one might think that your proposal to mirror LB> markchars.el into ELPA is not troublesome. However you may end up with LB> two versions of markchars.el if you mirror it into ELPA now. That would last for at most 1 day, until the nightly synchronization catches up with the nXhtml repository. I think that's OK. The nXhtml repository will still be the primary repository. LB> I would be glad to have it in ELPA - if just the automatic LB> installation could be fixed too. Can you give a specific scenario where markchars.el in both the GNU ELPA and in nXhtml would be a problem? I want to understand what needs to be fixed. LB> But you are however of course free to do what you want. Sure, but I'd rather collaborate if I can. The easiest thing (just keep markchars.el in the GNU ELPA) is not the best thing for the users. Ted