From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15117: 24.3.50; doc of `(forward|backward)-*': state return value Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 03:07:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87mwhy4ftl.fsf@yandex.ru> References: <1dc76f7a-5481-41df-b976-ec22229d7283@default> <874n4a42f0.fsf@building.gnus.org> <1281d0fd-77cb-45e2-b99d-f4ad24b0fc4e@default> <2fefcbaf-9417-4f57-93af-490ea73aea98@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1392080952 17920 80.91.229.3 (11 Feb 2014 01:09:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 01:09:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15117@debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 11 02:09:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qe-0007Q7-ND for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Feb 2014 02:09:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58980 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qd-0002n4-9s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:09:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47332) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qV-0002mv-NB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:09:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qQ-0004I9-Q0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:09:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:34263) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qQ-0004I5-M2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:09:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1qQ-0004u5-1C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:09:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Dmitry Gutov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 01:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15117 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 15117-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15117.139208088818779 (code B ref 15117); Tue, 11 Feb 2014 01:09:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15117) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Feb 2014 01:08:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42158 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1pX-0004so-Sd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:08:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ee0-f47.google.com ([74.125.83.47]:61822) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WD1pV-0004sH-Nb for 15117@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 20:08:06 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ee0-f47.google.com with SMTP id d49so3266809eek.20 for <15117@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:07:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mQVReeEjr6fb+ZViYkfcmmOzWl+0badFH41utaXYs+Y=; b=JDtrsHIJinlOaGjJzhnL2VroMpfaaAuGQh1iVAzflgqagQJ/ALBcaJmpjuu9rh6Asn 6mO5xddY98W8i0rrFUj8K1C0kpaRFDuI1OxbI3no/GEelFwvf6+xz4YX9skNyTlUGyHr XkMEhwg9pFylf8TToMDazNUb71iLajPQ48fUaiLq9nrtWcYsy+qQYeT7fFQmkNgFeSKr qfZX4yxbOXuDwdzgKMyI22FKVMsl7H16HHb+oul0cFxV7g4AlcncMPuzQmanmGghhtw8 EOpJJoN7y2VzanE/xOAAUGvjkObPihK3+6E3Ih9sP61qD+dhXNm8uzf/7eCV2AiBUltf Mkmg== X-Received: by 10.14.177.1 with SMTP id c1mr40390589eem.8.1392080879813; Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:07:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from axl (62-36-157.netrun.cytanet.com.cy. [62.228.36.157]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n41sm31237787eeg.16.2014.02.10.17.07.56 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:07:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2fefcbaf-9417-4f57-93af-490ea73aea98@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:16:27 -0800 (PST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:85342 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > Everything in the universe has side effects. Ohhmmmm. It's true. You should look up "referential transparency". > Motion functions are not what is typically meant by a side-effect > function. They do not change the contents of the buffer, for > example, in the sense of `buffer-modified-p'. Please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_effect_(computer_science) "function with side effects" is a pretty well-defined term. A function does not necessarily have to modify an Emacs buffer to be termed as such. > By your (newfound) logic, you will presumably remove mention of > the return value from the doc for those functions. The same > logic behind documenting their return value applies to these > other motion functions. The logic is simple: if the return value is documented, the caller should be able to depend on it, and "undocumenting" it retroactively isn't an option. As long as the return value is undocumented, but the function can still be useful without it, it can stay that way indefinitely.