From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nicolas Petton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Including some functions from dash.el in Emacs? Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:52:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87mw8f6i8i.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wq7j72wz.fsf@gmail.com> <87ppdb6mol.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1414594385 25424 80.91.229.3 (29 Oct 2014 14:53:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2014 14:53:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs development discussions To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 29 15:52:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XjUcN-0006Fw-K1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:52:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46654 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XjUcN-000456-9p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:52:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54606) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XjUc0-0003ws-VL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:52:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XjUbw-0006DP-AO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]:63627) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XjUbv-0006CP-UG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 10:52:32 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id gm9so2673750lab.32 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:52:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=AbDvvPvIq+7jqfIV3yU7f5sI6qz5W0qDBtulYEjrBlI=; b=aEn66dvK0kcGQM7lTfRMz057wGMZzhsQGOYpRXhCQ533MW0+SA7gIa6QGWxIZvVkkC V/gYYBaqirO6gIwoooh1o9DVp0CVt8XlekCPWEwKPeRGzTlbIxa/vKMYdzi7Lp+mYw/W aF+/wiAJ/ooVSoynFism7I6TVxS5zZY8+xdWfEsCzV++gBI64u/+AEaiZFCun/A3d8K9 X/+UpISL9H4exhToqIfV//pXJ4m/lMhY3l1fDB9UeyMKzveSowzhhlqGR5PUlqwaLSF1 9Ey9nPu5SCsqMvDNlLqbFXsWROQk0lEhb3X4opPIKk8GgxfvqN+L5JCzOyGRJVG68EkE 1SWg== X-Received: by 10.112.159.229 with SMTP id xf5mr11843411lbb.64.1414594350839; Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from blueberry (31-211-216-84.customers.ownit.se. [31.211.216.84]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id g5sm2039427lam.1.2014.10.29.07.52.29 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 29 Oct 2014 07:52:30 -0700 (PDT) User-agent: mu4e 0.9.9.6pre3; emacs 24.3.1 In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176005 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> Indeed, but I thought that having it builtin (ie no cl-lib >> required) would make Elisp better. Maybe that's just me but I always see >> cl-lib as a compatibility layer for CL, not something that I should >> almost always load in order to have decent manipulation list functions. > > The problem is only in your mind. Adding "(require 'cl-lib)" to the > beginning of your file costs only 18bytes. I think you can afford it. > Adding (require 'cl-lib) doesn't cost much, you are right, but IMHO it has nothing to do with the cost. I asked about dash functions because I personally think that Elisp would be much better with such list manipulation functions builtin. I think that using cl-lib only to filter a list shows that something is missing from the language. To me it is also weird to use prefixed functions for basic features like "cl-remove-if" and "cl-reduce". Please understand that I'm only willing to understand the reason behind this and why adding some of this functions wouldn't modernize and improve Elisp. Cheers, Nico -- Nicolas Petton http://nicolas-petton.fr