From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does "lacks a prefix" mean? Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:58:48 +0200 Message-ID: <87mvyyflk7.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> References: <1e0ad02f-ca3e-495c-bb85-61f77090d31d@googlegroups.com> <87bnfmqzn2.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <082e0be8-425b-4eff-8473-0c1091628695@default> <87d1zydu5g.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <54890979-2bf7-4665-b1d6-a147141c3dd1@default> <87pp3wkhoi.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> <87lhej62nl.fsf@nl106-137-147.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1436911262 13849 80.91.229.3 (14 Jul 2015 22:01:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 22:01:02 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 15 00:00:52 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8Fw-0001yD-8k for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:00:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33116 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8Fv-0008VN-Nm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:00:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37484) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8FT-0008VF-9p for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:00:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8FQ-0004bZ-3n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:00:23 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:48381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8FP-0004bT-Sm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZF8FN-0001lC-O1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:00:17 +0200 Original-Received: from nl106-137-156.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.156]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:00:17 +0200 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-156.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:00:17 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 63 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-156.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:07NRFyQZ/zfHOf3IeTVAgZjkwnQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:105722 Archived-At: Yuri Khan writes: >> If you are to muck around with old code, which >> seldom is a good idea but sometimes necessary (?), > > Why the (?)? Mucking around with old code is > necessary every time you want to add a feature or > debug a failure. It depends what you mean. Adding a particular feature or fixing a particular bug is one thing. The "let* style" simplifies this. Another thing altogether is "refactoring code", "optimizing", etc. *in general*. That is a bad idea and a bad entry point. If the program is poorly written, why not re-write it from scratch? OTOH, if the program is written in a good style, there is no reason to do any overall changes. There are very likely improvements to be made, and bugs to fix, and again, using let* makes this easy work because everything is clearly organized and you can easily spot the part you need to change/fix. > You’re putting out a strawman by comparing a “let* > style” where small expressions are given names and > arranged in a total order with a “let style” where > few names are bound to independent but > huge expressions. > > The ultimate degree of the “let*” style you describe > is code compiled to assembly. (For the sake of > argument There is always an extreme example that will make the most sound attitude bizarre. It is a dead end to argue like that. > Schoolbook stuff? No, we were not taught about > dependencies at school. We were taught recipes. I was taught, or "told" I should say, a lot about dependencies at school, and I read about them in many textbooks. There are many systems how to properly draw them with boxes and arrows. I believed then, and now, that this made-up, good-for-nothing "science" is a very sad routine, rather than comical, and to me it is a mystery that people do it. 99% of my school time wasn't like that, so it is fine, but yeah, I get angry just by thinking about that pompous BS that takes the fun and creativity out of everything, being told to kids that are ten or twenty times the hackers as the teachers "spreading the word". It is a very sad state. > Maybe you can keep 15 named variables and 60 unnamed > intermediate values in your head and reason about > them freely. ... what? *I'm* the one who want stuff named! -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573