From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add prettify symbols to python-mode Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:04:40 +0200 Message-ID: <87mvwda7dz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <1442777283-27514-1-git-send-email-mvoteiza@udel.edu> <20150921005306.GA29147@holos> <87h9mlwt6l.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442996207 21324 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2015 08:16:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 08:16:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Achim Gratz , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 23 10:16:46 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZefEL-0006gG-BZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:16:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46155 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZefEK-0007gW-Ph for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:16:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54808) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZefE8-0007g7-9w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:16:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZefE7-000572-7C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:16:32 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:53651) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zef8o-0003HS-Jr; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:11:06 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39234 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zef8k-0000ya-I8; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 04:10:59 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 337D7E3087; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:04:40 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:13:25 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190274 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > One of the gravest problems I see for the future of Emacs development > is that we slowly but steadily lose old-timers who know a lot about > the Emacs internals and have lots of experience hacking them, whereas > the (welcome) newcomers mostly prefer working on application-level > code in Lisp. If this tendency continues, we will soon lose the > ability to make deep infrastructure changes, i.e. will be unable to > add new features that need non-trivial changes on the C level. To quote from the famous "Four Yorkshire Men" sketch : Luxury. We've just recently had a sort of informal user poll of LilyPond users on the the LilyPond mailing list (LilyPond is a music typesetter extensible in Scheme and with a plain-text input language that is compiled into scores and Midi renditions, so its basic workflow is non-graphic and somewhat reminiscent of LaTeX or *roff). About 90% of the user base was in the 50-80 range. One of the first well-matured posters wrote "Well, apparently you _can_ teach old dogs new tricks" but as the thread progressed, the picture looked much more like you can actually teach rather few new dogs old tricks. > Moving most Lisp packages out of the core will give a tremendous boost > to this slippery slope, by even further detaching many contributors > from the core and segregating the core's ever dwindling bunch. That > way lies stagnation and death. Shrug. LaTeX had its last major release (LaTeX2e) in 1994. The basis of packages and style files built on top of that is ever expanding (I=A0suspect a similar age distribution to that of LilyPond, though). It is not clear that its designated successor, LaTeX3, will ever gain serious traction once it is finally released as a coherent offering (rather than a bunch of add-ons). And make no mistake: the basic _executable_ LaTeX is built around, namely TeX, is rather unsuitable for general purpose programming. > Please don't even think about suggesting this, unless you plan to come > on board and become a very active member of the core team, responsible > for these aspects specifically. Projects may behave like stars when the balance between matter and expansion shifts and eventually collapse under their own weight when there is not enough of a chain reaction going on any more. Is our twin star XEmacs a gas giant or a red dwarf these days? Or on the way to either? --=20 David Kastrup