From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Character folding in the pretest Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:47:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvrg2zid.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87mvriuk3a.fsf@gmail.com> <8737t9ex1p.fsf@petton.fr> <83oabxyf71.fsf@gnu.org> <56B230D1.90902@gmail.com> <87bn7x4i4o.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87d1sc4rin.fsf@djcbsoftware.nl> <87vb6431rd.fsf@wanadoo.es> <56B37DF4.7000808@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1454604518 16569 80.91.229.3 (4 Feb 2016 16:48:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 16:48:38 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 04 17:48:30 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN54-0004CL-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:48:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42853 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN53-0006Mi-EA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:48:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42372) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN4h-000687-3w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:48:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN4c-0004Ke-7m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:48:07 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:47139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN4c-0004KQ-0N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:48:02 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aRN4Z-0003ae-MG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:47:59 +0100 Original-Received: from 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.38.42.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:47:59 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 04 Feb 2016 17:47:59 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:FFG6dei80lGfOnh928v9GUyt4Ls= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199304 Archived-At: Clément Pit--Claudel writes: > On 02/04/2016 10:59 AM, Óscar Fuentes wrote: >> After seeing the case I mentioned (`n' matching `ñ' in >> Spanish text) it is obvious that the feature is not ready for prime >> time. > > This is interesting. I guess it boils down to whether you're trying to > avoid false positives or false negatives. For me the strength of this > feature is that it lets me find virtually anything using an dumb > keyboard (one without easy access to accents); I don't care too much > about false positives (that is, I don't mind if ‘n’ finds ‘ñ’). In > that sense, it doesn't matter if letters "are different"; all that > matters is whether they look different. I imagine that's why the > Unicode standard defined things that way. It seems this behavior is > consistent with that of most online search engines (I tried Google, > Bing, and DuckDuckGo; all return accented matches for unaccented > keywords). I see your point, but you are talking about accents all the time. In Spanish `n' and `ñ' are different letters. `n' matching `ñ' is no different than `p' matching `q'. I think that you will agree that some of us will see that behavior as a glaring bug. > I'm wary of smart solutions based on locale or buffer language. It's > not uncommon to be writing a single document in multiple languages; > especially if names are involved. Plus, it's not obvious that a single > set of settings is enough for each locale. For example, one could > argue that folding accents makes no sense in French: ‘supprimé’ means > ‘removed’, but ‘supprime’ means ‘removes’. Yet it is not uncommon for > people to write the latter for the former, especially when using a > dumb keyboard. I'm not sure how to fix this, but seeing similar reservations from other users, some language-dependent behavior is unavoidable.