From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:21:24 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvr9wxqz.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455042126 12975 80.91.229.3 (9 Feb 2016 18:22:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 18:22:06 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 09 19:21:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCvG-0000cI-8O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:21:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59275 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCvF-0003lj-Md for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:21:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46140) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCv1-0003lT-UG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:21:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCuw-0002r3-VM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:21:43 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40994) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCuw-0002qx-Ol for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:21:38 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTCuv-0000IW-IR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:21:37 +0100 Original-Received: from 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.38.42.1]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:21:37 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 19:21:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 45 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 1.red-83-38-42.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ET4ybjoEZHPX4GA8u1szFBEfhnE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199626 Archived-At: Artur Malabarba writes: [snip] > == Bottomline == > I don't know if it's possible to figure out the language of the user's > keyboard layout. But the point is that we should care about the > language that the user can _type_ in, Figuring out this (and acting upon that knowledge) looks like a quite complex task to me. In practice, letting the user tell Emacs about how the char folding should happen is more reasonable. > NOT the language that they > happen to be _reading_ now nor the language that they happen to > _know_. What I get from all this saga it that character folding is about allowing users to search for weird characters used by those funny-looking aliens who are harrassed by the guards when they pretend to cross our borders :-) You don't care about what the character really is, you just notice that it is "that character I know with some decoration added" and then use the character you know for searching for the funny one. I hope you all realize that the users who can benefit from this feature are those who are ill-equiped to *search* for certain characters, related to the latin alphabet, and need to that only occasionally. OTOH we have the people who actually write those characters, hence they don't need help for searching for them, and who will be pissed to discover that Isearch is broken. We don't need a smarter feature, we need a sane default, which is "disabled". When activated, act as Unicode says, which seems to be clearly defined. That's it. Much of the confussion on this topic originated on the expectation that the feature could be used for searching for equivalent characters within a language (*), but as that is not what is about, the need for language-dependent customizations vanishes, and with it the complexity goes away too. * Some languages (French) may benefit from the feature anyways, because the "equivalence classes" of theirs happen to coincide with what the character folding feature does.