From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21563: 24.5; discourage load-hook variables Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 01:03:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87muaoz2qu.fsf@marxist.se> References: <39185.7955.374134.22021@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87tv4w1poj.fsf@marxist.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="47560"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Roland Winkler , 21563@debbugs.gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 16 01:04:18 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1irse2-000CJ6-EG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:04:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21563 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 21563-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B21563.157913302732524 (code B ref 21563); Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21563) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2020 00:03:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irsdX-0008SW-Hp for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:03:47 -0500 Original-Received: from ted.gofardesign.uk ([67.225.143.91]:60700) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1irsdW-0008SJ-2x for 21563@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:03:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8L1dqeAAhJR1VrwhO3x1uAfgusHB3zFqq4ro5jg6hR8=; b=GW26yRViNBDSJO9FY1JWf3Vuk2 eCWkHvbk1JvH5dtXxRguO8XDZnO7D1WYnb8MIASLPldDZdkMNqL69fP+zB0ra8XlDIQcAsyel/+RB 0zhDJcfEr7WbgKfUfeMe9PxKzONv65/JmBbRr2UkZhiWEzlIt0Tjmv+0a6C1u1u7C32cXnY5/HVcV 8DVQfsCTty4MUo+YELbGnoWyBBKAC6CXkZssms1aHrz+heyTRvJZpusAc4lGKgK978dOl5Ztqo4hq tYQLkSYnziGlP/iRupQhdK2cI5XrCxwEwH4sR/O/eg6RHj9XvwoY4ZJ4AbCsLw4crgC8GmIDy25gX 7/RXS0rQ==; Original-Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:51352 helo=localhost) by ted.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1irsdP-000qBb-Hw; Wed, 15 Jan 2020 19:03:39 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Wed, 15 Jan 2020 17:06:31 -0500") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ted.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: ted.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: ted.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:174683 Archived-At: Glenn Morris writes: > Stefan Kangas wrote: > >> This suggests that all such variables should be considered obsolete, >> since eval-after-load is cleaner. I think I agree, but I have only >> ever used eval-after-load so I might be missing something. >> >> I would suggest to declare the above variables obsolete and point >> users to eval-after-load instead. > > I did this years ago for a few modes; eg dd210a6, 041e909, but never got > round to doing the rest. As I said in https://debbugs.gnu.org/24491#8, I > see no need to keep any *-load-hooks. Interesting. Since they also seem to be prone to cause problems like in Bug#24491, perhaps it is indeed better to get rid of them. They do look crufty and redundant once you start reviewing them in context -- with no clear benefit. I believe Drew already pointed out that any use of them could be easily replaced by (with-)?eval-after-load. I'll be happy to do (at least parts of) this, but should such changes be announced in NEWS? I noticed that you didn't do that in dd210a6 or 041e909. Best regards, Stefan Kangas