From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key (why only one?) and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:55:54 +0100 Message-ID: <87mtw74j5h.fsf@posteo.net> References: <877dndgnhp.fsf@posteo.net> <329d68a5edfafadfe7cd@heytings.org> <87y2fsg5ve.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtw8fi6k.fsf@posteo.net> <87ft20f3ec.fsf@posteo.net> <8735xz67ye.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39293"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 14 00:56:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4mG-000A8z-6t for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:56:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49678 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4mF-0000Ck-7r for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:56:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38538) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4ld-0000Cd-3Q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:56:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:41203) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4la-0005ZX-I2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:56:00 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C7662400FB for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:55:56 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613260556; bh=wuAQG7IHvn/Ynwv5d3ERzYXUAQAALLvFTIeY9TVTkpo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=Fcdi2/11u6xH25IdqOhPUCgkFqyrMqWeYX9So0fVCokYYMZHmuAGPdf+j4Wi8DzQG lD6Cq6zJ7WnxsRNJNXV0D8/3wDZ9xjad+/Bty/TFe2+yn9bYy4mMWotEAyMVGkxcd4 TpYEA7G+y9d0pdppRl8uMgsJOdIsJAVw+eNqhjCJrgwvXNwY/6iL/EAV8r7l9UUoRf OY/TqjXL/d7Q2iDcd7DZKmwZj+rqwleLD295UyfiFbRMzvprPiOZmQpF2Jh4OTRPC5 5qwGMLZ7+zX3TuucQpYpAXPtQXXYtEx2IQl8KQnR8CKKnx7xAG2PoQXWWRKahpHKdl 8mgK0i9hnkV9A== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4DdS1R5L9Zz6tm9; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:55:55 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Jean Louis's message of "Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:37:06 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127988 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean Louis writes: > * Gregory Heytings [2021-02-14 00:19]: >> > > > Sorry for protracting the conversation, I just think the >> > > > interpretation of the guideline is important. >> > >=20 >> > > Not for the proposal itself. >> >=20 >> > Well yes, because if packages may bind to C-c *with* the consent of >> > users, the need for a special package map decreases. >> >=20 >>=20 >> As I said, IMO it does not, it can't work as a long-term solution, 26 >> letters is simply not enough. Anyway, neither I nor you can decide what= the >> "correct" understanding of that guideline is, so I suggest we stop argui= ng. >> A proposal has been made, we'll see what the maintainers do with it. > > C-c a - can be bound to single command > > C-c a - can become prefix key for other 54 various commands like 26 > letters plus upper case letters =3D 52 plus 10 numbers =3D 62 + 32 > symbols =3D 94 various commands > C-c a a - can become as well prefix key for 94 various commands > C-c b a - can become as well prefix key for 94 various commands > etc. > > It can work as long term solution. This would only work, if you insist that packages only bind C-c LETTER to a map, and not another package, which also only works if the user doesn't decide to bind C-c LETTER to a command. So I get that there might not be that many commands, but I'd dare to claim that 52 keys are a fair number. This is not a matter of computational power or memory, the needs are not increasing exponentially over time. Keyboards have stayed more or less the same for over 70 years now and mouses have rarely more than three buttons. Even with Emacs, I am fairly sure that if you'd follow what commands and keys most people use, there would be an uneven/exponential distribution for everyone (while self-insert-command, yank, switch-to-buffer, ... are more common, open-line, back-to-indentation, forward/backward-page might differ a lot more and other commands that are bound by default are probably completely ignored), that might even be unique (e.g. I've recently noticed I unconsciously use find-alternate-file as a kind of revert-buffer). Maybe it is just me, but it would surprise me if people would keep 52 distinct commands in memory, which all have to be bound globally and are easy to type. Not insisting on this though. =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHHBAEBCAAxFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmAoZwoTHHBoaWxpcGtA cG9zdGVvLm5ldAAKCRAYH1uVrjCzNrMxC/9vYCLpNqJC9GFAxNgkDlAeskHP0nTO aOXHVIrLjdEv/aa0IJqbH3LWTjj68ftN84PQaC4b90ehcs0u8okzwxnwa09zAf4d XikvW0tWfMdJt94vbrSfPpwnSKtnAXzunpwezBhWwvlwayPeaapJWo49XWTGcZNb oJAqt9lkaMhGMre9k/K4RFzNomqlDvcTmhk3cP+ZpGpfhBWMFREIlfhrDxHd/JWb fU9+RL0+xG4DZiq5oTmyh4dT3m5/UtCEHs0LptqR+obDpNJDjXA7KRHx/olHpjrX xXzKi5iXdbSH9i0kPH5kaYOhoLj1lGlrMXs1woat/qZWSo5fzJxElMcdRuZ0e9lr 3q3UJbI28z1u+h5NX3QNPXm7heEbzsLmU8rFfefaVaK80YvAhpdqhIaQSJq5A/Y5 U1pxbO5GkeWZw5m93nxf+tspA2sLREbNI4at3eZn0dyxekUTRt1EL3Q+3GRxBBFl D4e0VBvQs65oUECFF8w7GIm4nLs5AXiJQ1I= =Dfs7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--