From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21695: 25.0.50; Change most occurrences of `setq' in Emacs manual to `customize-set-variable'? Really? Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 14:47:57 +0200 Message-ID: <87mtolx6de.fsf@gnus.org> References: <97d3ff2c-9e72-4004-88a9-08130ac99a74@default> <838s0fpixr.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0jtr45c.fsf@gnu.org> <87v93avtoe.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1dyvtav.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34240"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 21695@debbugs.gnu.org, hmelman@gmail.com, Richard Stallman To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 09 14:49:11 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJUM-0008gL-Hv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 14:49:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42594 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJUK-0007Vb-F0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:49:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59840) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJUE-0007VT-JO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJUE-0003rx-B7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:49:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJUE-0004kj-Av for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:49:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 12:49:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21695 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 21695-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B21695.163119169118206 (code B ref 21695); Thu, 09 Sep 2021 12:49:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21695) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Sep 2021 12:48:11 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJTP-0004jZ-DL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:48:11 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:42644) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJTN-0004jJ-Cd for 21695@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:48:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=doM57INf0AHDyjEBz4L6+uXAmodGgCC6r2HONFYZS6g=; b=Iuk0rmjdCzoGjnhnQxM7MkLT8n TwD4Fnc0GY6OY7GQw2VvOSaQDMER5QwXz2KeuMSdGoSBnkXdpCCNYmmdoYo6BA3MEIPtiiJtbweXJ ajDsfJsLteZ/dI0SfP3uNp5vZXCOE5EePcZgtYPE+XvKLj6k627pn+6IVPqiO7UQYwo0=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mOJTC-0006yH-TR; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 14:48:01 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Thu, 09 Sep 2021 12:40:50 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:213900 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: > Oh, I see. You mean that setq'ing autoloaded variables, which are > loaded before their .el files is loaded, can usually be setq'd, > disregarding their :set property. No, I'm saying that (for most variables) Emacs doesn't know that there's a :set on the variable when loading .emacs. And that's fine. Also for variables where Emacs knows there a :set (which would then issue the warning), it's also fine, because loading the .el file works perfectly. Most of the :set thingies are for when you've already started the mode/package and then change things "in flight". > But I don't see how one could distinguish between those for which it > is problematic and those for which is isn't. ISTM that in this case > displaying a warning even when it's not really problematic is better > than not displaying warnings for those variable for which it is > problematic? No, displaying a useless warning (and it will be useless in the vast majority of the cases) isn't good. I haven't really been paying attention to this bug report after closing it -- we're not going to change the manual as requested, and it's fine to use setq in .emacs. If we're to do something about this, then somebody would have to go through all the defcustoms with :set and try to identify some that should, indeed, not be set with setq and tag them up. (There aren't a lot of these.) Which is why I closed this bug report in the first place. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no