From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tomas Hlavaty Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:34:59 +0200 Message-ID: <87mtnujl70.fsf@logand.com> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <874ka5gsqa.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022b571db5291@heytings.org> <87h7e2xsl5.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37992"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_A=2E_Gomes?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 30 14:38:03 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvK7-0009jr-LX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:38:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58944 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvK6-0000K1-I3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50674) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvHG-0006mk-1J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: from logand.com ([37.48.87.44]:60236) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVvHD-0006uI-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:35:05 -0400 Original-Received: by logand.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 44B6D19EB31; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 14:35:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: emacs 27.2 (via feedmail 11-beta-1 I) In-Reply-To: <87h7e2xsl5.fsf@gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.48.87.44; envelope-from=tom@logand.com; helo=logand.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275882 Archived-At: On Thu 30 Sep 2021 at 13:31, Andr=C3=A9 A. Gomes = wrote: > Gregory Heytings writes: >> A simple example: suppose you want to check which ELPA package >> activates tab-bar-mode. That's easy to do with "grep -R tab-bar-mode" >> in a clone of the ELPA repository. With symbol prefix renaming, a >> package author might decide to add ("tb-" . "tab-bar-") in the >> shorthands of the package, and "grep -R tab-bar-mode" will not show >> anything. Likewise for tag systems, the symbols that are recorded >> will possibly be different in each package, and a search for >> tab-bar-mode will not return occurrences of tb-mode. > > I don't think this is a problem. It is a problem. It is a shame that it will break grep and search in general (e.g. web), due to names not being unique anymore. > Grep comes the world of Unix and its mantras. But Lisp REPLs come > from another world. That is wrong. I use Common Lisp and still need grep. > Using grep and tag systems to reason about a Lisp program is like eating > soup with a fork. You can do it, but it's the wrong tool. Some eat soup with sticks. Sure it can be the wrong tool for those refusing to learn to work with that.