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Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:11:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmwf-0005Nq-SK; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmwZ-0005L0-O7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:23 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmwV-0004pB-MI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:21 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9070D24002A for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:10:17 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1706616617; bh=E7ICPWyJUuiCje/OWkMUi9wFTC1cM1MEh2vvsHZil+Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=XbzCDRL2JBQo5fXLvNir/kVnzV0flT9DPuRNAQyCvsc4a+uNU88CLX0/GppHnWFEW TGCdSPH94tmk6Ko96eZzh4WaT8PX8BGg7SAq7HhFN6eKtXnkH7N7K/oCKfdMxaz4xW P2XxuxeuafU+hJRhmsNd/EkbuMbLZoUoQhv7OTCZZpJsYcHgKrs+tXRGzUEsXB7Puc aPbVfVybrDwcMQmf7RitIUAdszNM7D3nlJ+gzKg/CLKE67kFWxkPBE+3CcrB2ypVVE ESUFJt8+w/qt5VTAKA2G/aBZmk3+11G0QiHgtRggl1Njcy3a/VMH68AssSgjszLOaD k8+B6OZ3eKdaA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4TPPBJ1c4Hz6tvr; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:10:15 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: rms@gnu.org Cc: Eli Zaretskii , manikulin@gmail.com, 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com Subject: Re: bug#68687: [PATCH] Use text/org media type In-Reply-To: References: <6d94fff4-4d30-4121-bfd1-f267cb5b637c@gmail.com> <8734uqpvgn.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <49fa47c0-522a-46d7-ba0d-6e688aa26a8e@gmail.com> <74b83cf9-cd7e-429a-bd9d-0af964e1ddc5@gmail.com> <8634uh5rrq.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:13:47 +0000 Message-ID: <87mssn81dw.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -9.88 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7CF2974A96 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.88 X-TUID: kaha0aMhsMu3 Richard Stallman writes: > I am concerned that the actions described above would tend to embed > Org format and Org mode more deeply into Emacs usage. > > Suppose A and B are Org users. If A knows this, and mails B a message > which contains text labaled as text/org, that won't make anyone > unhappy. No one would have a reason to complain. > > But what if C mails a message to D with text labeled as text/org and D > is not an Org user? Will that cause Emacs to load Org? It should > not. > What will Gnus do when the user readss a message with text labaled as > text/org? What will Rmail do? What will MH-E do? It may or may not depending on user customization `mm-inline-media-tests'. Just like with text/html, application/javascript, text/x-sh, images, etc. By default, for example, text/html gets rendered via shr.el (AFAIK). Do you think that shr.el should not be loaded (in (require 'shr) sense)? > These are crucial questions because the answers would determine > whether this feature pressures people to use Org mode or not. We need > concrete answers because only that would enable us to see cleary now > whether the feature would do that if in use. Even when text/org is rendered using Org mode, there is nothing pressuring people to use Org mode there. It is just visuals. Org major mode is not activated. Also, it is already what Emacs does for text/x-org. This patch is merely asking to treat text/org as text/x-org is already treated. > Max Nikulin wrote: > > Received or fetched Org > > files must be treated with some precautions, but it is another story. > > I was not aware of this issue. Let's look at it concretely now so we > can determine what its implications are. Have people already written > a list of these precautions? If so, I'd like to see it. Max is referring to various security issues with evaluating code inside Org mode buffers. They are known, but not relevant to Org text being displayed in email MUA - Org never evaluates any code automatically without user explicitly asking for it. And in MUA, Org mode is simply used to apply faces. No other interaction with the displayed text/org mime part is allowed. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: bug#68687: [PATCH] Use text/org media type Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:13:47 +0000 Message-ID: <87mssn81dw.fsf@localhost> References: <6d94fff4-4d30-4121-bfd1-f267cb5b637c@gmail.com> <8734uqpvgn.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <49fa47c0-522a-46d7-ba0d-6e688aa26a8e@gmail.com> <74b83cf9-cd7e-429a-bd9d-0af964e1ddc5@gmail.com> <8634uh5rrq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37066"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68687@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 30 13:11:06 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmxF-0009Sz-QV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:11:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmx6-0005to-EZ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmx3-0005sv-Ir for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:53 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmx3-00051Q-AP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmxC-0007Qt-42 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:11:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ihor Radchenko Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68687 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 68687-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68687.170661663428530 (code B ref 68687); Tue, 30 Jan 2024 12:11:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68687) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jan 2024 12:10:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34502 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmwk-0007Q6-7d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:37899) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rUmwj-0007Ps-3d for 68687@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 07:10:33 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F3C6240103 for <68687@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:10:17 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1706616617; bh=E7ICPWyJUuiCje/OWkMUi9wFTC1cM1MEh2vvsHZil+Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=XbzCDRL2JBQo5fXLvNir/kVnzV0flT9DPuRNAQyCvsc4a+uNU88CLX0/GppHnWFEW TGCdSPH94tmk6Ko96eZzh4WaT8PX8BGg7SAq7HhFN6eKtXnkH7N7K/oCKfdMxaz4xW P2XxuxeuafU+hJRhmsNd/EkbuMbLZoUoQhv7OTCZZpJsYcHgKrs+tXRGzUEsXB7Puc aPbVfVybrDwcMQmf7RitIUAdszNM7D3nlJ+gzKg/CLKE67kFWxkPBE+3CcrB2ypVVE ESUFJt8+w/qt5VTAKA2G/aBZmk3+11G0QiHgtRggl1Njcy3a/VMH68AssSgjszLOaD k8+B6OZ3eKdaA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4TPPBJ1c4Hz6tvr; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 13:10:15 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:279166 gmane.emacs.orgmode:159440 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I am concerned that the actions described above would tend to embed > Org format and Org mode more deeply into Emacs usage. > > Suppose A and B are Org users. If A knows this, and mails B a message > which contains text labaled as text/org, that won't make anyone > unhappy. No one would have a reason to complain. > > But what if C mails a message to D with text labeled as text/org and D > is not an Org user? Will that cause Emacs to load Org? It should > not. > What will Gnus do when the user readss a message with text labaled as > text/org? What will Rmail do? What will MH-E do? It may or may not depending on user customization `mm-inline-media-tests'. Just like with text/html, application/javascript, text/x-sh, images, etc. By default, for example, text/html gets rendered via shr.el (AFAIK). Do you think that shr.el should not be loaded (in (require 'shr) sense)? > These are crucial questions because the answers would determine > whether this feature pressures people to use Org mode or not. We need > concrete answers because only that would enable us to see cleary now > whether the feature would do that if in use. Even when text/org is rendered using Org mode, there is nothing pressuring people to use Org mode there. It is just visuals. Org major mode is not activated. Also, it is already what Emacs does for text/x-org. This patch is merely asking to treat text/org as text/x-org is already treated. > Max Nikulin wrote: > > Received or fetched Org > > files must be treated with some precautions, but it is another story. > > I was not aware of this issue. Let's look at it concretely now so we > can determine what its implications are. Have people already written > a list of these precautions? If so, I'd like to see it. Max is referring to various security issues with evaluating code inside Org mode buffers. They are known, but not relevant to Org text being displayed in email MUA - Org never evaluates any code automatically without user explicitly asking for it. And in MUA, Org mode is simply used to apply faces. No other interaction with the displayed text/org mime part is allowed. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at