From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#69132: [ELPA] Remove jQuery from elpa.gnu.org Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2024 10:55:58 +0000 Message-ID: <87msron77l.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87jzn6g7ep.fsf@posteo.net> <87h6iap2lz.fsf@posteo.net> <87a5nswvwr.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30925"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: corwin@bru.st, 69132@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 25 11:57:01 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1reCBo-0007mB-DH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 25 Feb 2024 11:55:59 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 24 Feb 2024 22:13:47 -0500") X-Hashcash: 1:20:240225:corwin@bru.st::yZEwHglFkB3nnqWq:0QK8 X-Hashcash: 1:20:240225:69132@debbugs.gnu.org::swAH7hnCb/GQocqb:1Jp5 X-Hashcash: 1:20:240225:rms@gnu.org::x4vKWhqSk3Gyg9vp:0fGM X-Hashcash: 1:20:240225:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::q1bzAZRog3/86gzu:3AP+ Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:280611 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > There are two fully moral ways to implement a search feature for a web > > > site. One is to implement it inside the web server. The other is to > > > communicate with a free program that the user has installed in per > > > computer, and could replace with any other. > > > In this case, both options would be overkill. > > Do you mean, they would be more complex than is _technically_ > necessary? I believe you, but this issue is about a choice that is > mainly moral, not technical. This moral issue is about showing > leadership in avoiding Javascript (even free Javascript) when that is > possible. No, I'd say functionally. The would work just as well without Javascript, but if available it provides a minor quality-of-life enchantment -- just as Javascript was intended to be used. > > The search functionality > > does little more than just hiding a few elements from a table. In > > practice, it don't offer much more than using the built-in C-f search > > functionality, that every browser provides. > > That browser feature does not use Javascript sent by the server. All > of the code for the browser search feature is installed by the user, > who can choose which browser version to install. So it does not raise > this moral issue at all. > > Do you see why Javascript raises a distinct moral issue? No, but I don't think we have to discuss this here. > > We should be talking about the same code; I am not sure what you mean by > > instructing users to install the code themselves? Are you talking about > > user-scripts? > > Yes, that's the term I should have used. Thanks. > > This issue is about who controls what code you run -- not about what > the code _does_. The Javascript code, sent by the web site, gives > that site control. The very same code, installed by the user, does > not. > > But if the code is simple, perhaps the API is not worth the trouble. I think it is absurd to talk about "control" in this case, as the functionality that we are discussing barley qualifies as a program. If elpa.gnu.org would depend on Javascript to even display a single page, then I would agree with you that this would be a problem, but what we have here falls safely in the domain of progressive enchantment[0] and graceful degradation[1], since everyone gets as much functionality as their browser provides (which includes customised browsers, that disable Javascript by default, as I do too), while making use of what the user decides to enable. [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/Progressive_Enhancement [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Glossary/Graceful_degradation -- Philip Kaludercic