bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

I am not sure whether I sent a similar ticket before or not!

I used to have the following desired behaviour with Gnus: when I send an
email from my phone to someone, gnus pulls this email when it checks the
emails. However, now this behaviour unfortunately is no longer
persistent. Gnus does not pulls an email that was sent from other
devices connected to the same account!



In GNU Emacs 28.2 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.34, cairo version 1.17.6)
 of 2022-09-12 built on frederik
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101004
System Description: Arch Linux

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bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> I am not sure whether I sent a similar ticket before or not!
>
> I used to have the following desired behaviour with Gnus: when I send an
> email from my phone to someone, gnus pulls this email when it checks the
> emails. However, now this behaviour unfortunately is no longer
> persistent. Gnus does not pulls an email that was sent from other
> devices connected to the same account!

We'd need a lot more information than this to figure out the problem.
What kind of mail account is this (IMAP, something else?) and how are
you sending emails from your phone? Did the email used to show up in a
"Sent" folder, or where are you expecting them to appear? Is it possible
that Gnus is pulling the emails, but they're marked as read so they
don't display by default?

My first guess is that your phone client used to save outgoing mails,
but has either stopped doing that, or saves them in a different place
now.

Eric

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and check).


Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>
>> I am not sure whether I sent a similar ticket before or not!
>>
>> I used to have the following desired behaviour with Gnus: when I send an
>> email from my phone to someone, gnus pulls this email when it checks the
>> emails. However, now this behaviour unfortunately is no longer
>> persistent. Gnus does not pulls an email that was sent from other
>> devices connected to the same account!
>
> We'd need a lot more information than this to figure out the problem.
> What kind of mail account is this (IMAP, something else?) and how are
> you sending emails from your phone? Did the email used to show up in a
> "Sent" folder, or where are you expecting them to appear? Is it possible
> that Gnus is pulling the emails, but they're marked as read so they
> don't display by default?
>
> My first guess is that your phone client used to save outgoing mails,
> but has either stopped doing that, or saves them in a different place
> now.
>
> Eric

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several
> experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus
> pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a
> pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that
> case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from
> my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail
> interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email
> although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and
> check).

This still isn't enough information to help you. How is Gnus fetching
mail for this account? Is it an nnimap backend, or some other mail
backend using a mail source?

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Thanks again for your time,

I have four emails, three are pop3 and one is imap. I am using nnml. This is my gnus.el part:

```
(setq mail-sources `(
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl)
		                 (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
		       	              :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
		       	              :port 993
		       	              :stream ssl
			                    )
		                 )
      gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gnus.org")
      gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))

      user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
      user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
      send-mail-function		'smtpmail-send-it
      message-send-mail-function	'smtpmail-send-it
      smtpmail-smtp-server		"smtp.gmail.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-service             '587
)
```

Another piece of information is that I am using spacemacs, which I do not think it will make any difference as its maintainers confirmed to me that they did not change anything with gnus


Thanks so much.

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>
>> Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several
>> experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus
>> pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a
>> pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that
>> case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from
>> my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail
>> interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email
>> although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and
>> check).
>
> This still isn't enough information to help you. How is Gnus fetching
> mail for this account? Is it an nnimap backend, or some other mail
> backend using a mail source?

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

One more piece of clue: I installed outlook on my iphone to experiment with, as a replacement of “Mail app” of iphone. The same problem exist, i.e., when I send an email with outlook, gnus does not fetch it. 

> On Dec 1, 2022, at 9:16 AM, Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks again for your time,
> 
> I have four emails, three are pop3 and one is imap. I am using nnml. This is my gnus.el part:
> 
> ```
> (setq mail-sources `(
>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>                                :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
>                                :port 995
>                                :stream ssl)
>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>                                :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
>                                :port 995
>                                :stream ssl)
>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>                                :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
>                                :port 995
>                                :stream ssl)
>                         (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
>                                 :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
>                                 :port 993
>                                 :stream ssl
>                                )
>                         )
>      gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gnus.org")
>      gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
> 
>      user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
>      user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
>      send-mail-function        'smtpmail-send-it
>      message-send-mail-function    'smtpmail-send-it
>      smtpmail-smtp-server        "smtp.gmail.com"
>      smtpmail-smtp-service             '587
> )
> ```
> 
> Another piece of information is that I am using spacemacs, which I do not think it will make any difference as its maintainers confirmed to me that they did not change anything with gnus
> 
> 
> Thanks so much.
> 
> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
> 
>> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several
>>> experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus
>>> pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a
>>> pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that
>>> case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from
>>> my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail
>>> interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email
>>> although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and
>>> check).
>> 
>> This still isn't enough information to help you. How is Gnus fetching
>> mail for this account? Is it an nnimap backend, or some other mail
>> backend using a mail source?

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> One more piece of clue: I installed outlook on my iphone to experiment with, as a replacement of “Mail app” of iphone. The same problem exist, i.e., when I send an email with outlook, gnus does not fetch it. 

Can you confirm that the Outlook app saves your sent message in the app?
What's the name of the folder the send mail is saved to?

My guess is that the account in question is the one you're using as an
imap mail source. When you use imap as a mail source, Gnus will only
fetch mails from the folders named in the :mailbox setting, which
defaults to "INBOX". So I'm guessing that the mail is being saved into
"Sent" or something like that, but Gnus does not fetch mail from there.

If it's true that this is the imap account, then try changing the
mail-source definition to:

(imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
      :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
      :port 993
      :stream ssl
      :mailbox ("INBOX" "Sent")
      )

Replacing "Sent" with whatever the actual name of the sent mail folder
is.

Alternately (and in my mind preferably), access the imap account using a
full nnimap server backend. Then you'll see everything, and get two-way
sync.

Eric

>> On Dec 1, 2022, at 9:16 AM, Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks again for your time,
>> 
>> I have four emails, three are pop3 and one is imap. I am using nnml. This is my gnus.el part:
>> 
>> ```
>> (setq mail-sources `(
>>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>                                :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
>>                                :port 995
>>                                :stream ssl)
>>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>                                :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
>>                                :port 995
>>                                :stream ssl)
>>                         (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>                                :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
>>                                :port 995
>>                                :stream ssl)
>>                         (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
>>                                 :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
>>                                 :port 993
>>                                 :stream ssl
>>                                )
>>                         )
>>      gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gnus.org")
>>      gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
>> 
>>      user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
>>      user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
>>      send-mail-function        'smtpmail-send-it
>>      message-send-mail-function    'smtpmail-send-it
>>      smtpmail-smtp-server        "smtp.gmail.com"
>>      smtpmail-smtp-service             '587
>> )
>> ```
>> 
>> Another piece of information is that I am using spacemacs, which I do not think it will make any difference as its maintainers confirmed to me that they did not change anything with gnus
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks so much.
>> 
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>> 
>>> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several
>>>> experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus
>>>> pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a
>>>> pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that
>>>> case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from
>>>> my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail
>>>> interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email
>>>> although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and
>>>> check).
>>> 
>>> This still isn't enough information to help you. How is Gnus fetching
>>> mail for this account? Is it an nnimap backend, or some other mail
>>> backend using a mail source?

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Thanks so much.

In fact, this problem happens even with pop3 emails. When I send an email, using a pop account, either from Outlook or Mail (both are apps on iphone), the email is saved in the app and I can see it on the webmail in the folder sent, but Gnus cannot fetch the email. However, if I send from the webmail Gnus fetches it!!

So, in both cases the email is saved to the folder sent of the pop account!!

> On Dec 6, 2022, at 4:10 PM, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote:
> 
> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
> 
>> One more piece of clue: I installed outlook on my iphone to experiment with, as a replacement of “Mail app” of iphone. The same problem exist, i.e., when I send an email with outlook, gnus does not fetch it. 
> 
> Can you confirm that the Outlook app saves your sent message in the app?
> What's the name of the folder the send mail is saved to?
> 
> My guess is that the account in question is the one you're using as an
> imap mail source. When you use imap as a mail source, Gnus will only
> fetch mails from the folders named in the :mailbox setting, which
> defaults to "INBOX". So I'm guessing that the mail is being saved into
> "Sent" or something like that, but Gnus does not fetch mail from there.
> 
> If it's true that this is the imap account, then try changing the
> mail-source definition to:
> 
> (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
>      :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
>      :port 993
>      :stream ssl
>      :mailbox ("INBOX" "Sent")
>      )
> 
> Replacing "Sent" with whatever the actual name of the sent mail folder
> is.
> 
> Alternately (and in my mind preferably), access the imap account using a
> full nnimap server backend. Then you'll see everything, and get two-way
> sync.
> 
> Eric
> 
>>>> On Dec 1, 2022, at 9:16 AM, Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks again for your time,
>>> 
>>> I have four emails, three are pop3 and one is imap. I am using nnml. This is my gnus.el part:
>>> 
>>> ```
>>> (setq mail-sources `(
>>>                        (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>>                               :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
>>>                               :port 995
>>>                               :stream ssl)
>>>                        (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>>                               :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
>>>                               :port 995
>>>                               :stream ssl)
>>>                        (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
>>>                               :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
>>>                               :port 995
>>>                               :stream ssl)
>>>                        (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
>>>                                :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
>>>                                :port 993
>>>                                :stream ssl
>>>                               )
>>>                        )
>>>     gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gnus.org")
>>>     gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
>>> 
>>>     user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
>>>     user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
>>>     send-mail-function        'smtpmail-send-it
>>>     message-send-mail-function    'smtpmail-send-it
>>>     smtpmail-smtp-server        "smtp.gmail.com"
>>>     smtpmail-smtp-service             '587
>>> )
>>> ```
>>> 
>>> Another piece of information is that I am using spacemacs, which I do not think it will make any difference as its maintainers confirmed to me that they did not change anything with gnus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks so much.
>>> 
>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>> 
>>>> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks so much for your reply. After I read your reply, I did several
>>>>> experiments and found that the problem does not happen (that is, Gnus
>>>>> pulls the sent messages) if I send from the webmail interface of a
>>>>> pop3 email, e.g., using chrome to send from my gmail account. In that
>>>>> case Gnus will pull the sent email. However, if the email is sent from
>>>>> my iphone (whether IMAP or pop3 account) or even from a webmail
>>>>> interface of an IMAP account, Gnus does not pull the sent email
>>>>> although the email is indeed saved in the sent box (I go online and
>>>>> check).
>>>> 
>>>> This still isn't enough information to help you. How is Gnus fetching
>>>> mail for this account? Is it an nnimap backend, or some other mail
>>>> backend using a mail source?

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On 12/06/22 16:17 PM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
> Thanks so much.
>
> In fact, this problem happens even with pop3 emails. When I send an
> email, using a pop account, either from Outlook or Mail (both are apps
> on iphone), the email is saved in the app and I can see it on the
> webmail in the folder sent, but Gnus cannot fetch the email. However,
> if I send from the webmail Gnus fetches it!!
>
> So, in both cases the email is saved to the folder sent of the pop account!!

Do the sent messages have the same marks (both marked as read, anything
else) regardless of whether you send them from the app or from webmail?

And you have the sent mail folder in Gnus, but it only contains messages
that were sent via the webmail, not the messages sent via the app?

I'm running out of ideas, I'm afraid...

Eric

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Thanks so much for your patience,

Yes, the app (whether it is Outlook or Mail app of iphone) saves the
mail to the "Sent" folder within the app itself, and I find it in the
folder "Sent" on the webmail. In both cases (whether I send from the app
or the webmail) I see the message in the "Sent" folder on the webmail
marked as read. I tried to mark it as unread, hoping that Gnus will
fetch it, with no success.

For gnus, yes, I receive all messages sent via webmail not the messages
sent via the app!

I am really puzzled about this!

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> On 12/06/22 16:17 PM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
>> Thanks so much.
>>
>> In fact, this problem happens even with pop3 emails. When I send an
>> email, using a pop account, either from Outlook or Mail (both are apps
>> on iphone), the email is saved in the app and I can see it on the
>> webmail in the folder sent, but Gnus cannot fetch the email. However,
>> if I send from the webmail Gnus fetches it!!
>>
>> So, in both cases the email is saved to the folder sent of the pop account!!
>
> Do the sent messages have the same marks (both marked as read, anything
> else) regardless of whether you send them from the app or from webmail?
>
> And you have the sent mail folder in Gnus, but it only contains messages
> that were sent via the webmail, not the messages sent via the app?
>
> I'm running out of ideas, I'm afraid...
>
> Eric

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

By default, Gnus only fetches UNSEEN (and UNDELETED) mails, so make sure
the sending MUA does not mark the sent mail as SEEN.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

I meant by “read” its colour on the webmail after sending  is faint not bold. Both (the email sent by the app and the email sent by webmail) appear faint on the webmail after sending; however, Gnus fetches only the one sent by the webmail. 

Do you suggest another criterion, than colour, to check the status of the sent email whether it is SEEN or UNSEEN.

> On Dec 9, 2022, at 2:41 AM, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> 
> By default, Gnus only fetches UNSEEN (and UNDELETED) mails, so make sure
> the sending MUA does not mark the sent mail as SEEN.
> 
> -- 
> Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
> GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
> "And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On 12/09/22 11:41 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> By default, Gnus only fetches UNSEEN (and UNDELETED) mails, so make sure
> the sending MUA does not mark the sent mail as SEEN.

Thanks, Andreas, I was hoping it might be something like this.

Waleed, can you see what marks are set on the sent mail? SEEN is
distinct from READ. You can also change the config for your imap mail
source, adding

:predicate "1:*"

see the "Mail Source Specifiers" section of the manual. That only
applies to imap mail sources, though.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Amazing!

I just added added what you have suggested (:predicate "1:*") to the
imap account I have; it fetched more than thousand emails, including
those sent today. So, it is working now for imap. However, how can I do
it for pop? The strange thing is that it was working until just weeks or
months ago; what happened!!

Just for your information, I will re-share my mail source settings:

```

		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
		       	               :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
		       	               :port 993
                           :predicate "1:*"
		      	               :stream ssl
                           :mailbox ("inbox" "sent items")
                           :fetchflag "\\Seen"
			                     )
```

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> On 12/09/22 11:41 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
>> By default, Gnus only fetches UNSEEN (and UNDELETED) mails, so make sure
>> the sending MUA does not mark the sent mail as SEEN.
>
> Thanks, Andreas, I was hoping it might be something like this.
>
> Waleed, can you see what marks are set on the sent mail? SEEN is
> distinct from READ. You can also change the config for your imap mail
> source, adding
>
> :predicate "1:*"
>
> see the "Mail Source Specifiers" section of the manual. That only
> applies to imap mail sources, though.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Oh; but for the imap account Gnus keeps fetching all the emails again
and again! I have to remove this :predicate "1:*"


Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> Amazing!
>
> I just added added what you have suggested (:predicate "1:*") to the
> imap account I have; it fetched more than thousand emails, including
> those sent today. So, it is working now for imap. However, how can I do
> it for pop? The strange thing is that it was working until just weeks or
> months ago; what happened!!
>
> Just for your information, I will re-share my mail source settings:
>
> ```
>
> 		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
> 			                    :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
> 			                    :port 995
> 			                    :stream ssl
>                           :leave non-nil)
> 		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
> 			                    :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
> 			                    :port 995
> 			                    :stream ssl
>                           :leave non-nil)
> 		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
> 			                    :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
> 			                    :port 995
> 			                    :stream ssl
>                           :leave non-nil)
> 		                 (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
> 		       	               :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
> 		       	               :port 993
>                            :predicate "1:*"
> 		      	               :stream ssl
>                            :mailbox ("inbox" "sent items")
>                            :fetchflag "\\Seen"
> 			                     )
> ```
>
> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> On 12/09/22 11:41 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
>>> By default, Gnus only fetches UNSEEN (and UNDELETED) mails, so make sure
>>> the sending MUA does not mark the sent mail as SEEN.
>>
>> Thanks, Andreas, I was hoping it might be something like this.
>>
>> Waleed, can you see what marks are set on the sent mail? SEEN is
>> distinct from READ. You can also change the config for your imap mail
>> source, adding
>>
>> :predicate "1:*"
>>
>> see the "Mail Source Specifiers" section of the manual. That only
>> applies to imap mail sources, though.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> Oh; but for the imap account Gnus keeps fetching all the emails again
> and again! I have to remove this :predicate "1:*"

You'll have to play with matching :predicate and :fetchflag configs. The
:predicate can target flags (the default appears to be "UNSEEN
UNDELETED") and then :fetchflag can set a flag that will be filtered out
by subsequent fetches.

The pop mail source doesn't have an equivalent predicate, and I assume
it would just fetch everything.

Nothing has changed with mail sources or fetching in the past several
months...

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

If the IMAP server allows setting arbitrary keywords, you can use that
to mark the downloaded mails.

              :predicate "UNKEYWORD gnus-fetched"
              :fetchflag "gnus-fetched \\Seen"

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote; when fetching it gives me an
error of bad code bla bla..

I read this page
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Mail-Source-Specifiers.html
I could not find more information.


On the other hand, for the pop server, how I checks for the SEEN/UNSEEN
flag of the message on the server? From the webmail, I clicked on
message details and information and did not find useful information.


Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> If the IMAP server allows setting arbitrary keywords, you can use that
> to mark the downloaded mails.
>
>               :predicate "UNKEYWORD gnus-fetched"
>               :fetchflag "gnus-fetched \\Seen"

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

The IMAP server probably doesn't offer the ability to set arbitrary
flags.  You can see that in the answer to the SELECT command, which the
IMAP server answers with PERMANENTFLAGS and the list of possible flags
(which must include \* for this ability).

The POP protocol does not offer any options here at all.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

I really appreciate your support. So, do you think there is no more
things to try? This means that I will always have Gnus out of sync with
my emails sent from my phone when I am away from my laptop!


Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> The IMAP server probably doesn't offer the ability to set arbitrary
> flags.  You can see that in the answer to the SELECT command, which the
> IMAP server answers with PERMANENTFLAGS and the list of possible flags
> (which must include \* for this ability).
>
> The POP protocol does not offer any options here at all.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

When I have to cope with such an impoverished mail server, I work around
that by using the \Draft flag to mark the downloaded mails.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

So, this is the code:


                           :predicate "\\Draft"
                           :fetchflag "\\Draft"

with two two \\ not just one \


Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> When I have to cope with such an impoverished mail server, I work around
> that by using the \Draft flag to mark the downloaded mails.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

The predicate is UNDRAFT.
See RFC3501 for a full list of predicates (in the SEARCH command).

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Ok; thanks so much. I think it works now for the imap except that when I
send from Gnus I cannot find the sent mail on the webmail Sent box!!! So
the snycing is one-way only.

My stmp settings in gnus are: (BTW, my imap email is the last one, which
is wyousef@uvic.ca)

```
(setq ;;;;SMTP
 user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
 user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
 smtpmail-smtp-server	"smtp.gmail.com"
 smtpmail-smtp-service '587
 send-mail-function		'smtpmail-send-it
 message-send-mail-function	'smtpmail-send-it
 ;; very nice examples here: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/gnus/Posting-Styles.html
 gnus-posting-styles '(
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@aucegypt.edu")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@aucegypt.edu>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.gmail.com 587 wyousef@aucegypt.edu"))
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@gwumail.gwu.edu")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.gmail.com 587 wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"))
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@uvic.ca")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@uvic.ca>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.uvic.ca 587 wyousef@uvic.ca"))
                       )
 )
```
What do you suggest for this?

For the pop, it is the other way around; what Gnus sends really goes to
the server. However, as I explained, Gnus does not fetch the mails sent
from the iphone apps. For solving this, do you suggest I turn all my pop
mails to imap?


Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> writes:

> The predicate is UNDRAFT.
> See RFC3501 for a full list of predicates (in the SEARCH command).

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Andreas Schwab]

If you have the option then IMAP is always preferable over POP.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Ok; 

Still looking forward please for your advice on the first part (sending from Gnus does not show up on the Sent folder of imap) BTW, this imap account is I think exchange server.

> On Dec 9, 2022, at 11:33 AM, Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> 
> If you have the option then IMAP is always preferable over POP.
> 
> -- 
> Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
> GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
> "And now for something completely different."

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On 12/09/22 11:12 AM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
> Ok; thanks so much. I think it works now for the imap except that when I
> send from Gnus I cannot find the sent mail on the webmail Sent box!!! So
> the snycing is one-way only.

Are you using Gcc headers? My posting styles look like, eg:

	("gmane"
	 (address "eric@ericabrahamsen.net")
	 (gcc "nnimap+Personal:Sent")
	 )

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Yes, I am using. But why this is related to the problem of not fetching
the sent emails? This is my full gnus.el:

```
(setq mail-sources `(
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@fcih.net"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@aucegypt.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (pop :server "pop.gmail.com"
			                    :user "wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"
			                    :port 995
			                    :stream ssl
                          :leave non-nil)
		                 (imap :server "mail.uvic.ca"
		       	               :user "wyousef@uvic.ca"
		       	               :port 993
		      	               :stream ssl
                           :mailbox ("inbox" "sent items")
                           :predicate "UPDRAFT"
                           :fetchflag "\\Draft"
			                     )
		                 )
      )

(setq
 gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gnus.org");; for news groups (between quotes, add the newsgroup server)
 gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
 )

(setq
 user-mail-address "wyousef@fcih.net"
 user-full-name "Waleed Yousef"
 smtpmail-smtp-server	"smtp.gmail.com"
 smtpmail-smtp-service '587
 send-mail-function		'smtpmail-send-it
 message-send-mail-function	'smtpmail-send-it
 gnus-posting-styles '(
                       (".*" (Bcc "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net>"))
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@aucegypt.edu")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@aucegypt.edu>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.gmail.com 587 wyousef@aucegypt.edu")
                        ("Bcc" "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@aucegypt.edu>"))
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@gwumail.gwu.edu")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.gmail.com 587 wyousef@gwmail.gwu.edu"))
			                 ((header "to" "wyousef@uvic.ca")
                        (From "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@uvic.ca>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.uvic.ca 587 wyousef@uvic.ca")
                        ("Bcc" "Waleed Yousef <wyousef@uvic.ca"))
			                 ((header "To" "info@mesclabs.com")
                        (From "MESC Labs. <info@mesclabs.com>")
			                  ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp mesclabs.com 465 info@mesclabs.com"))
                       )
 )

(setq
 nnmail-message-id-cache-length 100000
 nnmail-treat-duplicates 'warn
 nnmail-cache-accepted-message-ids t
 nnmail-split-fancy '(|
                      (: nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent)
                      (from "\\(.*@github\\.com\\)" "ADS")
                      "mail.misc"
                      )
 gnus-message-archive-group '(
                              (if (not (string-empty-p gnus-newsgroup-name))
                                  (list gnus-newsgroup-name "nnml:MySent")
                                (list "nnml:MySent")
                                ))
 gnus-gcc-mark-as-read t
 )

(setq
 gnus-search-default-engines '((nnml . gnus-search-namazu))
 gnus-search-namazu-index-directory "/home/wyousef/.namazu-mail"
 gnus-search-use-parsed-queries t
 gnus-search-namazu-remove-prefix "/home/wyousef/Mail/"
 )
```


Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:


> On 12/09/22 11:12 AM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
>> Ok; thanks so much. I think it works now for the imap except that when I
>> send from Gnus I cannot find the sent mail on the webmail Sent box!!! So
>> the snycing is one-way only.
>
> Are you using Gcc headers? My posting styles look like, eg:
>
> 	("gmane"
> 	 (address "eric@ericabrahamsen.net")
> 	 (gcc "nnimap+Personal:Sent")
> 	 )

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Björn Bidar via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> On 12/09/22 11:12 AM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
>> Ok; thanks so much. I think it works now for the imap except that when I
>> send from Gnus I cannot find the sent mail on the webmail Sent box!!! So
>> the snycing is one-way only.
>
> Are you using Gcc headers? My posting styles look like, eg:
>
> 	("gmane"
> 	 (address "eric@ericabrahamsen.net")
> 	 (gcc "nnimap+Personal:Sent")
> 	 )

Does this work when mail-sources is used with imap?
He doesn't use nnimap so in that Gnus would either need to save to imap
and then sync back or sync the local copy of the imap contents to with
the sent folder that he uses.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Waleed Yousef]

Thanks so much for clarification. In addition to what you have said, I
still have the problem of syncing wit the pop accounts. Gnus does not
recieve what is sent from other devices (as I detailed in the thread)


Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> On 12/09/22 11:12 AM, Waleed Yousef wrote:
>>> Ok; thanks so much. I think it works now for the imap except that when I
>>> send from Gnus I cannot find the sent mail on the webmail Sent box!!! So
>>> the snycing is one-way only.
>>
>> Are you using Gcc headers? My posting styles look like, eg:
>>
>> 	("gmane"
>> 	 (address "eric@ericabrahamsen.net")
>> 	 (gcc "nnimap+Personal:Sent")
>> 	 )
>
> Does this work when mail-sources is used with imap?
> He doesn't use nnimap so in that Gnus would either need to save to imap
> and then sync back or sync the local copy of the imap contents to with
> the sent folder that he uses.

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Jakub Ječmínek via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:

> Thanks so much for clarification. In addition to what you have said, I
> still have the problem of syncing wit the pop accounts. Gnus does not
> recieve what is sent from other devices (as I detailed in the thread)

Hi, this is relatively known behaviour of POP3 on Gmail (just search for
"gmail sent folder pop"). Google also mentions it on their website in
Troubleshooting section (citing it below).

> To avoid duplicates, Gmail doesn't download emails sent within your
> mail client, but you can still see them if you log in to Gmail.

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828?hl=en#zippy=%2Cemails-arent-downloading-correctly

I'm not aware of any workaround (maybe adding yourself to BCC to every
message you send?).

Best

-- 
Kuba Ječmínek (http://kubajecminek.cz)

bug#59587: 28.2; gnus does not retrieve emails sent from another device

[Jakub Ječmínek via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Jakub Ječmínek <kuba@kubajecminek.cz> writes:

> Waleed Yousef <wyousef@fcih.net> writes:
>
>> Thanks so much for clarification. In addition to what you have said, I
>> still have the problem of syncing wit the pop accounts. Gnus does not
>> recieve what is sent from other devices (as I detailed in the thread)
>
> Hi, this is relatively known behaviour of POP3 on Gmail (just search for
> "gmail sent folder pop"). Google also mentions it on their website in
> Troubleshooting section (citing it below).
>
>> To avoid duplicates, Gmail doesn't download emails sent within your
>> mail client, but you can still see them if you log in to Gmail.
>
> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828?hl=en#zippy=%2Cemails-arent-downloading-correctly
>
> I'm not aware of any workaround (maybe adding yourself to BCC to every
> message you send?).

The discussion has been dormant for a while and also I'm pretty sure
that this report is not related to Gnus so I'm going to close
it. However, if you feel otherwise, please feel free to reopen.

Best

-- 
Kuba Ječmínek (http://kubajecminek.cz)