From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: utf-16le vs utf-16-le Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:17:35 +0300 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87lk3dpfvk.fsf@jurta.org> References: <20080414070214.GA3956@www.trapp.net> <20080415073824.GA8466@www.trapp.net> <877iez3s7i.fsf@jurta.org> <4805B501.6010909@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1208388292 6465 80.91.229.12 (16 Apr 2008 23:24:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:24:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Jason Rumney To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 17 01:25:29 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JmH0K-0006zG-4k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:25:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JmGzf-0007Xb-Gr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:24:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JmGyT-000702-Jq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:23:33 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JmGyS-0006zF-22 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:23:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JmGyR-0006z8-R9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:23:31 -0400 Original-Received: from relay01.kiev.sovam.com ([62.64.120.200]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JmGyJ-0003Zc-Mp; Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:23:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay01.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JmGyH-000Gje-OZ; Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:23:22 +0300 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:35:24 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-Scanner-Signature: 1e897a521fdb5eac39b1f944f187ca57 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Header: Not Detected X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 2646 [Apr 16 2008] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {HEADERS: header Content-Type found without required header Content-Transfer-Encoding} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Rate: 10 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0278], KAS30/Release X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: FreeBSD 4.8-5.1 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:95376 Archived-At: >>> Emacs behaves correctly IMO, since its behavior is tuned for reading >>> text, and BOM is not part of the text. If you want to debug the >>> programs that generated that text, you can always use no-conversion or >>> find-file-literally. > >> But you don't know what you are debugging until Emacs (or something else) >> points out the unexpected BOM. Indicating the presence of a BOM isn't >> really any different to indicating the encoding, though a better (more >> noticeable) UI might be some indicator in the left fringe on the first line >> of the file, rather than just a change to the character in the modeline. > > We could use an approach similar to non-breaking space, where the BOM is > made visible just like any other char, with a special face. Ideally it > would also be somehow protected from accidental removal, There is currently one way to display the BOM in Emacs: visiting a file that contains the BOM with a BOM-less coding (e.g. visiting a utf-16le-with-signature file forcing the utf-16le coding) displays at the beginning of the buffer a big ugly character that looks like some screen garbage. There is some interesting information about it: name: ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE old-name: BYTE ORDER MARK This looks like it was once renamed, and a new name hints not to display it due to its supposed zero width. Maybe then a better indication would be in the modeline by displaying the name of the coding with signature explicitly like "U(BOM)". -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/