From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Rmail-mbox branch Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:10:54 +0900 Message-ID: <87ljy0z7q9.fsf@xemacs.org> References: <87zlprvod0.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4868CF84.1040005@pajato.com> <48A90589.4020804@pajato.com> <48A91146.60200@pajato.com> <48A968A3.8050806@pajato.com> <48BA1DAE.2030005@pajato.com> <874p51xblf.fsf@cyd.mit.edu> <84od39q9mv.fsf@boris.laptop> <84abesum0g.fsf@boris.laptop> <841w03v389.fsf@boris.laptop> <84wshvtgoz.fsf@boris.laptop> <87od363q1i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87iqtd4ubu.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <877i9s4pf5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hc8vf97n.fsf@xemacs.org> <878wu3fd4r.fsf@xemacs.org> <87fxoa112r.fsf@xemacs.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1221037585 18236 80.91.229.12 (10 Sep 2008 09:06:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 09:06:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 10 11:07:19 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KdLfS-0001h4-QQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:07:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41390 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KdLeS-0002AZ-Ao for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:06:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KdLeM-0002AS-SN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:06:10 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KdLeJ-00029x-Nh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:06:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35617 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KdLeJ-00029t-HJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:06:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:42788) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KdLe8-0007Tx-4D; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 05:05:56 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECC51535DF; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:05:43 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EAEBB1A2972; Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:10:54 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 83e35df20028+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103754 Archived-At: Richard M. Stallman writes: > > How do you reach that conclusion for text/html? > > I explained that already. > > You didn't really try to explain, only to vent contempt. Wrong on both counts. You seem to think I was addressing my posts only to you, but in fact I *succeeded* in explaining (as evidenced by offline thanks I have received) to others. The fact that that did not succeed for you, and further attempts to explain for your personal benefit met with no help from you, was frustrating. I admit that. Especially frustrating since in fact *you* are the most prominent beneficiary of a better Rmail; most of the world has long since moved on to more capable MUAs, and has no need of improvements in Rmail. I do not appreciate your attempt to blame me for your lack of effort in communicating. You have your reasons for terseness, I'm aware, but that is no excuse for this rudeness. > Someone else did really explain, which I appreciate. If you are referring to David de la Harpe's explanation of why text/html is not "plain ASCII", you are still missing the main point (though his post was a complete and useful explanation of the subsidiary point it addresses). I do not appreciate you putting me down by calling that a "real explanation" in this context. You see, "charset=us-ascii" doesn't really matter here. As I pointed out to Francesco, there's no reason at all not to transcode body text to UTF-8, and as I pointed out to Stefan, for many users it would be very convenient and would cause no harm to transcode the headers too. (I suspect that *you* are one user who would greatly benefit from that feature, which will be easy to implement, and I had you in mind when I exerted the effort to propose it to Stefan.) The main point, on the other hand, is that for Rmail to be generally useful and interoperable these days, it needs to support non-text objects, at least to the extent of not harming them. The straight- forward way to avoid loss of information is simply to store messages containing such objects in their "straight from the wire" form in an mbox-format file, and decode the parts that Rmail supports for presentation every time the message is presented.