From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul R Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:27:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87ljx87p1y.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87ljxoffs6.fsf@atthis.clsnet.nl> <71208e97-140c-445d-8eda-1705f11b14b3@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <095ef0c0-c7f4-494d-8bf6-8a5ee43fd934@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <3c61c357-0705-4ff4-b793-fa6827415fdd@n38g2000prl.googlegroups.com> <4fr5r5-jnp.ln1@invalid.net> <7d4066c0-df52-4b06-b206-03e805df2192@a18g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <87fxni7yq1.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1222846103 697 80.91.229.12 (1 Oct 2008 07:28:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 07:28:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: nospam@dev.null (Alexey Pustyntsev) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 01 09:29:21 2008 connect(): Connection refused Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Kkw9B-0002oH-2k for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 09:29:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41452 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kkw88-0003nm-5Q for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:28:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kkw7l-0003nN-Ho for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:27:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Kkw7i-0003m3-FS for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:27:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48364 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Kkw7i-0003m0-9y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:27:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:48833) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kkw7h-0001Ji-Kx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:27:49 -0400 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.158]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Kkw7g-0008Kh-9k for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:27:48 -0400 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so333473fgb.30 for ; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:27:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:to:cc:subject:references:from :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=j7UrtA0Z/rvCvhw8+nHhdKptI1E5kYg/eDNUR7WG45I=; b=YT3yHYGNl3Dkbv1EcXZsq5t86JoRKLXOmuo6AM493YOcQVsd+aHhz8DGNf/+dmlppI bBuM3ut9xBBmi0iNJ2xp0meBY7dAqEYj99S/ElVRQk7Hk7CHoh3vHIMbLE7kj+lH/uOv mFUUmyqWPkldGrL3XJGV4pBwnmcKIExvoAev0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=to:cc:subject:references:from:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; b=neCq2ciZ0Q8THAJFN4f7ECXPwCrV8l9AX0D7IFGtnQTxzXirzR9uBhEz9YmDMJVLzj 3Puo/adgXbHc4hgIkTnQsUcHuSArJVAFUqjOuEDLuFgpAF5hJiQGL9N6/TjoQrFRyisR 7EcEKwsTuNAE3rm6SL41ly2Y91/q5C93qFosg= Original-Received: by 10.86.95.20 with SMTP id s20mr6657275fgb.49.1222846066507; Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ubuT42 (pdc35-1-82-242-132-111.fbx.proxad.net [82.242.132.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l19sm2514980fgb.7.2008.10.01.00.27.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 01 Oct 2008 00:27:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Alexey Pustyntsev's message of "Wed\, 01 Oct 2008 00\:37\:50 +1100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by mx20.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:58239 Archived-At: Hello Alexey, Alexey> Considering the people that use Emacs, I think the defaults Alexey> should be as neutral as possible. I agree and I define "neutral" as "what most newcomers expect". Alexey> There is no need to worry about the defaults very much. They Alexey> may be changed, of course, but, actually, there is no problem Alexey> with them since they are easily customizable. Some people are Alexey> just making a storm in a teacup. Default behaviour of the surface of any software, including emacs, can frustrate newcomers to a point at wich they drop it. In this field, my 5+ years experience with observing newcomers to emacs is exactly the opposite of your conclusion. Namely, people droping emacs because of the default keybindings. Alexey> After all, Emacs is not just an editor, it's a whole lisp Alexey> environment. How long did it take you to realize and fully understand the meaning of this statement ? Users giving up before this period of time will never understand it. -- Paul