From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Unable to close a bug in the tracker.
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:13:59 +0900 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87ljfw3v94.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <buoy6jwjemr.fsf@dhlpc061.dev.necel.com>
Miles Bader writes:
> Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes:
> > The Version Control system must be tailored to developers. The bug
> > tracker shall be accessible to users as well.
Yup. Isn't it time to stop making excuses, admit that there really is
a problem here, and either say, "It's too much effort (so don't bother
asking any more)", or fix the bug tracker?
> Sure, but note that
>
> (1) This is only true of some operations -- users very often _open_
> bugs, or give further comment, but other operations are almost
> always done by devs
This actually isn't true in Emacs. Emacs developers have never
hesitated to ask users to do things like provide additional
information, etc, and I have seen requests to add tags on this list.
Although those requests for tracker operations may have been directed
at other developers, *Emacs users do accept responsibility to do
(reasonable amounts of) scutwork* to save developers the trouble.
Isn't it worth paying them back for that?
There are also Emacs developers whose relationship to emacs-devel and
the email-based workflow is very intermittent; they show up briefly
before a release, want to interact efficiently with their package's
bugs (often a newly added one), and are stymied by an unfamiliar or
long-disused UI. (I know this has repeatedly happened to me in
dealing with debbugs for Debian's XEmacs packages.)
> (2) How convenient a particular interface (web / emacs / generic email)
> is depends on the operation -- commenting on a bug you're already
> following (for instance, if you submitted it in the first place, or
> are a dev working on it) for instance, is usually far more
> convenient via email, even for people that generally prefer web
> interfaces (because they can just hit "reply" in their mail reader)
Nope. It varies by project, and Emacs might be better than most. But
for bugs I've reported to free-desktop.org, MacPorts, Debian, SuSE,
Fedora, Mailman, and Bazaar, I've almost always had to go to the web
interface for context (previous messages and uploaded files) because
the mail that I get is weeks later, and a laconic one-liner (eg, "I
don't understand") followed by 12 lines of administrivia about bug
status and nosy lists. And some trackers allow response to specific
messages (specifically, email-based trackers will), so if you don't
save all your bug-related email, you will be unable to determine where
in the thread this particular mail belongs.
Curiously enough, I never need to go to the web interface for XEmacs
bugs. But I have a funny feeling that's not Emacsen-specific, but
rather developer-vs-user-specific.
> So I think while a good web interface is important for some operations,
> it really isn't critical to have one for _all_ operations. Hopefully
> that makes the problem a bit easier...
Basically, setting status and priority are the only ones you can leave
out. Even assigning the bug to a developer should be allowed for
users, because that often speeds up response dramatically. But
setting status is trivial to implement.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-01-18 4:13 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-01-14 0:27 Unable to close a bug in the tracker Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 0:44 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-14 1:08 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 1:21 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 1:26 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 2:09 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-14 2:08 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-14 10:06 ` Andreas Schwab
2010-01-14 1:02 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 1:08 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 1:14 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 1:16 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 1:21 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 1:59 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-14 2:15 ` bug spam [was Re: Unable to close a bug in the tracker.] Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 4:45 ` bug spam Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 5:21 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 8:14 ` Yavor Doganov
2010-01-14 15:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 17:14 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 17:16 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 18:08 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 18:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-15 3:59 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-19 19:15 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-19 19:29 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-19 20:42 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-19 21:01 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 18:09 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 1:14 ` Unable to close a bug in the tracker Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 2:37 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-14 2:44 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 12:24 ` Xavier Maillard
2010-01-14 1:19 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 1:28 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 1:41 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 12:58 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 15:47 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 16:24 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-01-14 18:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-15 2:11 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-15 2:31 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-15 6:19 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-14 4:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 6:36 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 8:54 ` bug threading [was Re: Unable to close a bug in the tracker] Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 15:24 ` bug threading Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 12:59 ` Unable to close a bug in the tracker Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 14:55 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 15:09 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 17:04 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 19:20 ` Xavier Maillard
2010-01-14 9:41 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-01-14 17:07 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-14 18:54 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-01-14 19:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-01-15 3:59 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-15 21:36 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-16 4:02 ` Deniz Dogan
2010-01-16 8:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-01-16 11:02 ` Reiner Steib
2010-01-16 11:13 ` Óscar Fuentes
2010-01-18 3:06 ` Miles Bader
2010-01-18 4:13 ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2010-01-18 5:29 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-01-19 0:06 ` Glenn Morris
2010-01-16 20:57 ` Xavier Maillard
2010-01-16 21:09 ` Richard Stallman
2010-01-14 13:09 ` Getting full bug database dump? Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 14:47 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 15:21 ` Michael Albinus
2010-01-14 15:31 ` Karl Fogel
2010-01-14 16:09 ` Michael Albinus
2010-01-14 16:20 ` Chong Yidong
2010-01-14 16:24 ` Michael Albinus
2010-01-14 16:37 ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-01-14 19:33 ` Emacs interface to debbugs (was: Getting full bug database dump?) Reiner Steib
2010-01-14 20:35 ` Emacs interface to debbugs Michael Albinus
2010-01-14 21:25 ` Ted Zlatanov
2010-01-14 18:00 ` Getting full bug database dump? Stefan Monnier
2010-01-14 19:56 ` Michael Albinus
2010-01-14 17:31 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2010-01-14 18:04 ` Karl Fogel
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