From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:00:57 +0100 Message-ID: <87lipnqdhy.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87aa64ubg9.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83boqkr9bp.fsf@gnu.org> <874nwcu17i.fsf@wanadoo.es> <834nwcr6un.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcosskhc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <831urgr2yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4zgsh2w.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ipks3zbo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87boqk3q69.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fwfvsgfv.fsf@wanadoo.es> <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739bvs27m.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325718092 31520 80.91.229.12 (4 Jan 2012 23:01:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 23:01:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 05 00:01:28 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZpm-0005aY-MB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:01:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54211 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZpm-0005Sn-AH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:01:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38660) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZpi-0005SN-VC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:01:24 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZph-0000Xf-Oq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:01:22 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:56983) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZph-0000XS-EV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 18:01:21 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZpe-0005Vy-JR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:01:18 +0100 Original-Received: from 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([79.147.11.225]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:01:18 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2012 00:01:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 47 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:GMW3PvCH8Si5DrNHEJqXMV3/VmM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147301 Archived-At: Juanma Barranquero writes: > On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 20:21, Óscar Fuentes wrote: > >> For a Windows binary package to be robust, it must be as self-contained >> as possible. Quality-wise, one of the best decisions I ever made was to >> distribute the C/C++ MS runtime dlls along with the rest of my binaries, >> no matter they are already installed on virtually all MS Windows >> machines. Certain long-standing, very nasty bugs simply went away. > > Assuming you're right, You can bet on it. At the beginning there was several versions of MSVCRT.DLL floating around, some of them notoriously buggy. Of course, everybody installed the dll on system32. The problem was partially fixed by SxS, which essentially ensured that applications that didn't embed manifests (and hence didn't required a specific version of the dll) used the default, "safe" one provided by MS with the OS. That started with Windows XP, although it doesn't protect you from inadvertently picking a dll inside a directory that comes first on PATH. With Windows 2000, I had to face one of the more frustrating bugs on my career: a few users reported crashes, freezes and data corruption (on a DB app!). It took me months to discover the problem for one of the users: a mass storage device driver and accompanying backup utility installed their own custom-modified MSVCRT.DLL on system32, which somehow caused my app to freeze when certain gui action was performed. They didn't bothered to use a different version string or id on the resources of the library, so it reported itself as one of the "good" dlls. Then I started to put my runtime dlls on the same directory as the rest of my binaries, and the problems of those users disappeared. Most of them haven't that storage device. The issue costed me a several hundred work hours, mostly trying to desperately find bugs inside my application. > that seems like a wonderful side project. Why > not start a project to build a prepackaged Emacs binary installer for > Windows? Aside from installing DLLs, it could set up other things > (after asking the user, of course), like CUA mode, and other binaries, > like a better ftp than the standard one. > > I do really believe that a user-friendly installer for Windows is a > good idea. I strongly *don't* believe the Emacs project should bear > the load of it. I think that's more or less what Lennart is already doing, isn't it? OTOH an installer that could act as an update tool for the dlls could be interesting.