From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Kickstarter for Emacs Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:27:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87liltyv1e.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> References: <87wr5dfm9v.fsf@gnu.org> <87398118ys.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1334759289 5475 80.91.229.3 (18 Apr 2012 14:28:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:28:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 18 16:28:05 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SKVrW-0005EA-Su for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:28:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50400 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SKVrV-0007LY-Sv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:28:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37632) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SKVrO-0007L0-9E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:28:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SKVrE-0007Ts-CF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:27:53 -0400 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:52417) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SKVrE-0007Sq-69 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 10:27:44 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0427CD22E0; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:27:43 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aGUULBfCBnmo; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:27:42 +0200 (CEST) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender noch tassilo@member.fsf.org Original-Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (tsdh.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.67.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B85E0D22DB; Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:27:42 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Tom's message of "Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:47:45 +0000 (UTC)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130004 (Ma Gnus v0.4) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 141.26.64.15 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:149761 Archived-At: Tom writes: >> Not sure how well that works right now, but that might be a rather >> cheap option to catch up on Java support in Emacs. The downside of >> this approach is of course that you still need Eclipse... > > Yes, this is also an option which needs much less time to effort to > implement, though I think people were much less likely to fund such a > solution if they would still need to use Eclipse. Not sure. Just having Eclipse installed doesn't bother me too much. Having it running and consuming memory/CPU doesn't bother me, too. What really bothers me is that even when using Eclipse with its Emacs keybinding scheme enabled, it's still hard to use. I want my kill-ring, I want keyboard macros, I want my isearch, etc... > So this implementation would be more like a best effort, "working on > it in my free time" version than full time, crowdfunded version. Sure, but even with full-time initial development and crowdfunding, I think you underestimate the effort needed for catching up on Eclipse's Java support. According to the statistics at Ohloh https://www.ohloh.net/p/eclipse-jdt the Eclipse Java Development Tools are about 2 million LOC, estimated effort ~600 person-years, estimated costs ~33 million USD, ~30 active committers, and ~90 committers in total. Ok, you shouldn't take those numbers to seriously, but well, it's much anyway. Bye, Tassilo