From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Achim Gratz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: random doesn't feel very random Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:17:45 +0200 Organization: Linux Private Site Message-ID: <87lih0ykue.fsf@Rainer.invalid> References: <876288yh72.fsf@kanis.fr> <87wr0livd4.fsf@Rainer.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1346044697 21280 80.91.229.3 (27 Aug 2012 05:18:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 05:18:17 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 27 07:18:16 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T5riJ-0005vG-S6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:18:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53260 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5riH-0003yW-Qf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:18:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49376) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5riB-0003yL-17 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:18:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5ri3-0006dm-4p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:18:06 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:60611) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T5ri2-0006di-UA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:17:59 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T5ri2-0005oN-74 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:17:58 +0200 Original-Received: from pd9eb4acc.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.235.74.204]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:17:58 +0200 Original-Received: from Stromeko by pd9eb4acc.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:17:58 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 25 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pd9eb4acc.dip.t-dialin.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:X0koWzvss+behIMqbx78MGgXfKk= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152859 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > It is a feature that, if you don't call (random t), `random' returns > a predictable sequence. That is good for debugging. I recognize that, but it leads directly to the mis-use of (random t) all over the place. Wouldn't it be better (in the absence of any API changes) to have an option to start Emacs with a predictable seed for debugging and have it use a random seed otherwise? > Perhaps we should create a different interface for that feature > and make the default truly random. Yes. Again, if applications within Emacs care about that sort of thing it would really be necessary for them to be able to use their own PRNG state rather than Emacs' global one, which isn't possible with the current API. Regards, Achim. -- +<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+ Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ: http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds