From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jambunathan K Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:14:31 +0530 Message-ID: <87li074mxc.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83d2lrczi7.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mmcsd9.fsf@gnu.org> <83txf1blf2.fsf@gnu.org> <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <83r4a5bj5x.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwktdy6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83iovhb0ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3fxdpmg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837gbwbcsx.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ob57rlkb.fsf_-_@informatimago.com> <35e892b1-73b8-4ca2-9317-7eb83e7223e5@default> <464a688e-b7a5-4f6b-84b4-d7cd42107c8d@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385714736 28567 80.91.229.3 (29 Nov 2013 08:45:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 08:45:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" , Drew Adams , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "T.V. Raman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 29 09:45:42 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VmJhl-0001sZ-Fg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:45:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46126 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmJhk-0000fG-MQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 03:45:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35262) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmJhb-0000W9-S1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 03:45:37 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmJhW-0006sS-EQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 03:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::232]:64677) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VmJhW-0006sF-35 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 03:45:26 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id rr13so13945001pbb.23 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:45:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:message-id:user-agent :mime-version:content-type; bh=OjrY+rhPnAoY9H9yQLT/Cdqx9y46yWUWC15yg87twMk=; b=oviSOoKaY8Jr8nJC3RtOXYlNBQOeAJhZbTsW0MDH4dng3EF3CeumYG5qJ8GYBOSzye jmLYRRKDMyF194K9IlFNP2nWikDSUVlLDUGGYKXUdFYa9emJqYjA9Farrm1OWfAJdQey nQENEUvzPOTMd4MNilcG9AzhLmDxw4u+czElVPn/3I01Touw0ljN7heTs3ccIv25G1cG 2Or6kkJYu8XNAkhv0UCEMWjfNaa+lG0H5C33vf42jblfLKO3qF36l0AvcTSOxesgSuux VG55ma4XuJ7AemoB0S3qY0bROT5tY4+13nVXiEGhSdsuCdOlThhuNd8V3ntgQsG1T6NC 0m3Q== X-Received: by 10.66.190.10 with SMTP id gm10mr26320717pac.126.1385714724918; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:45:24 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from debian-6.05 ([101.63.226.171]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id km1sm8739754pbd.13.2013.11.29.00.45.21 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:45:24 -0800 (PST) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165856 Archived-At: A bit freewheeling. "T.V. Raman" writes: > the structure of my content Much depends on "my". Let me call it "What I mean is what I mean" (Get off my lawn) processing mode. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Novel, Script writing: ===================== I remember seeing a screenshot (does someone have a link?) of an Emacs buffer of popular sci-fi writer. The buffer was showing a WIP novel. IIRC, It was a flip-flop of ">"-prefixed lines (think Gnus-citaion markers) and regular lines with the convention that one stood for the actual prose of the novel and the other note on current context. (For example, the author could do flush-lines and keep-lines and get an early draft of the novel.) This author was proficient enough to have "invent his own system and conventions to aid his own workflow". (Isn't this freedom is all about?) Thought experiment: ================== If I am a writer of novels (complex plot, reliant on research material collected from disparate sources), can I re-purpose my Emacs to "self-publish" a novel without getting in the way and much less effort. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Multi-lingual documents: ===================== How about documents that have multiple scripts and one MAY have to fiddle with bidi-settings on a per-element basis. (Things like Bidi are not only about aesthetics but also tied directly to the "content".) Now if you want to have Tables with Bidi-text then Orgmode is practically useless. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Org emphasis markers are un-satisfactory ======================================== Org - like any other markup format - imposes itself on the user. (i.e., it caters to the lowest common denominator.) Unfortuanately, there are people who want slightly more than the lowest common denominator. There have been numerous threads in the past, where Org (and hence Emacs in general, so to speak) is KNOWN to be unsatisfactory and getting in the way of what the user wants to do. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Realities of having and maintain a hand-written parser ====================================================== Org maintainers have refused to re-consider or re-purpose Org emphasis markers (for a good reason). By, "Emphasis" is meant what the user himself thinks as emphasis and not what Org says it ought to be. See http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=14157#8. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Emacs Lisp, Customizable, Extensible - Huh! - No Thanks ======================================================== Insisting on proficiency with Emacs Lisp, when computers and Emacs are being used by non-programmers (Think, Arts and Humanities. A non-LaTeX(?) camp. Supporter of OpenDocument formats.) is a bit absurd in modern times. That something is extensible or customizable is good on paper. But if it cannot put food on the plate, then that is a bit sad. How many users of Emacs do you think can write a defun (leave alone a export filter) in a single go. ,---- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-11/msg00849.html | | So, is this feature a must-have? Or would a filter template in Worg more | appropriate in this case? `---- This thread was about introducing pagebreaks in the exported document. ,---- http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2013-11/msg00849.html | | Anyway, I don't think this is a good idea to introduce a new syntax just | to avoid a one-liner (or a hook, see below). Also, this would only make | sense in few export back-ends. | | Really, introducing new syntax has a cost, so you have to ponder if it's | really useful, because, once installed, every Org user will have to pay | the price for it. | | Admittedly, in this particular case, that cost isn't very high, but | I think it would nonetheless add up to the list of hardly-used syntax | category." `---- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Generating Indices ================== texi allows one to build an "index". Is there a way I can specify an index for a book or manual I write with Org-mode? In LibreOffice, one can "extract" certain styles and generate a TOC for it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- No Bibliographies ================= There is no "standard" way to create Bibliographies. ---------------------------------------------------------------- No Real-life Tables =================== I have expanded on this aspect before. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Need to extract and transform Text Properties ============================================ I believe the word-processing mode can come with an added feature whereby one can "grok or transform" text based on "Text Properties". i.e., Think regexp-replace but regexp specifies properties and not the text itself. See http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15244 http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=15245