From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:16:55 +0200 Message-ID: <87lhhpi9ns.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> References: <87383xk4ia.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <55329AD9.4090303@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429381029 16547 80.91.229.3 (18 Apr 2015 18:17:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:17:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Artur Malabarba , emacs-devel To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 18 20:17:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXIc-0002zK-RO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:17:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46503 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXIb-00074A-Ui for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:17:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40402) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXIZ-000741-CM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:17:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXIY-000565-15 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:16:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x22a.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a]:38107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjXIX-00055r-QF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 14:16:57 -0400 Original-Received: by wiun10 with SMTP id n10so51357196wiu.1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:16:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=R71rXtkuVwOM6ET7pbzFjOo4ail3xph7zoPHfHCs4Co=; b=G5ieLqy1pYReV9GP9fX2D5ZQBgGcHMNrlZ1DjaUL/F7nk5Wss9QfvYx/kuI/SEz6BW KCdngy+YU/WrKxJIgcQ4d1+ua1d9HxccXhqPZw7YugjAWrIVrRYOUOM6Xis/Wd2lMFap vIVGW2HuHITbIkCW0WQUmFC2gTpWerCGHAFv8AnZUOg+Wtn4RHgmX0OxgzLyaTfOOCWM +ouDIybctEymnnjkz8Xd/LCMN3dR4MdGpM3ljIMz8CED9+nWbuCh+xDyuCoQOcE5483P +XYz4/J5noVNOs1NEY1CVNP/0ow0+kalvbTygfTxqcPTee+idMu92RLOufcyPPBLRNLq 9ygQ== X-Received: by 10.194.190.49 with SMTP id gn17mr16791498wjc.11.1429381017153; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A439B920213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a43:9b92:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z12sm19881312wjq.12.2015.04.18.11.16.55 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Apr 2015 11:16:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55329AD9.4090303@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Sat, 18 Apr 2015 20:56:41 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22a X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185623 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 04/18/2015 08:16 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> Or else, have package-initialize be called by customize-set-variables. > > This would be the easiest to implement, I think. It contradicts with the goal of running package-initialize before the loading of init.el, since you would need to apply Customize settings before loading init.el. We probably don't want to apply Customize settings before (or at the start of) loading init.el, do we? So I would go with making Customize smarter and writing settings in the package group to pre-package-init.el or `package-custom-file' (analogous to `custom-file'). Given that 1. initialization of installed packages intuitively belongs before loading user configuration (since it's likely to cover configuration specific to some packages), 2. one might nevertheless want to configure the package system itself, I don't see any clean solution other than to separate pre-package configuration from normal configuration, be it for Customize or user init files. Does anyone see disadvantages with this design? I think it's the most sensible approach. Taylan