From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 12:18:19 -0600 Message-ID: <87lh5rv7kk.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <87fuw090k7.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83y49spuxt.fsf@gnu.org> <87pov4achc.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <83r3fkpb3u.fsf@gnu.org> <83lh5rps0t.fsf@gnu.org> <56E066BD.5050403@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457547527 5692 80.91.229.3 (9 Mar 2016 18:18:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 18:18:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , John Wiegley , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 09 19:18:41 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1adigy-0002jL-VV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 19:18:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43352 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adigy-0008Fk-9q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:18:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51225) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adigk-0008FR-9A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:18:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adigf-0003vs-Ng for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:18:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22d]:36076) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1adigf-0003vc-Jn; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 13:18:21 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yw0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id g3so46876588ywa.3; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:18:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=wYKQKoHrhi/4wVdoqkkbwar5Enf5b5JUOxyx5UqzO0M=; b=rfmRMN3llPy8P6aNJsokeF4EI0h8wTrkSk9bGmzIb+PKzTnWPZJ7sM5kFMcgeStsoy RsuoxMX77DrCU9LGofl2c0JFuDYbdyVHIvn1rO3S7UQb5V/Ge6yjaMWfuMpqexjKY1ff IWCpe0d9WCvSFuowljj1wfpqemzU8Nyld9/GpvLoOF0Tki5nIaqjBING2RRPFJPZqFIh mowsSTj2Cyg111mh+M00Mkaht0CLhAeaK9ZV8Z7u/8j1qFiGhAZdEDxCDLzQCJKAPN2s OVpnfa0U/Rxca6+XEZ9THUCVrgZCAFfAxF7b1Anwd7hL2ebhCj+b4SvcYLWSOVLUwil/ 1jyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=wYKQKoHrhi/4wVdoqkkbwar5Enf5b5JUOxyx5UqzO0M=; b=I50ruT5rTzlPVs6+BOoBcP5erg1ADrPZItnbhppU2WsMhOKeDLBiqAdlFLMgVbeWdB ygdL0jOXaXt57nWiQBYTuV4wnl2fHS+LRLYBdkW0TiDbgm6A4bhnDcgWZ/blGfk6P1Um BwKnOv50Vc0VPa/P3+Lp1G0fxxmvFJ3dlgb4IwFBBB/Ls9KjtJfpv9APuqmN6zyRQuyL G0OVIjpSSyYInYpMtZKaTEjoe7zIBtqUuzX1WPJs/UGaKk/cT4IJY0i/uY1H66rBgJfS iEA5ia0ZCMbvxqUwBGk8oocuS8vT/81L8wWDb/DydYgVyAgdSadKFOhUYUADp1oBSX1O RTzg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJSUfzZMnEqNAm+BVI/e8611vXlxe+LrsrjnP9ap3hK363P8ZIFIh1y3YT/cW7Xwg== X-Received: by 10.129.110.2 with SMTP id j2mr1727459ywc.334.1457547501157; Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:18:21 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from floss (74-92-190-114-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d191sm4411841ywb.16.2016.03.09.10.18.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Mar 2016 10:18:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <56E066BD.5050403@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:09:01 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.92 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201270 Archived-At: Paul Eggert writes: >Yes, the ChangeLog format is useful. I use it myself for commits I >make to GNU projects (as well as some non-GNU projects, e.g., >https://github.com/eggert/tz). Perhaps the format could be improved, >but that should be a different thread. > >On 03/09/2016 07:53 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> So removing ChangeLog files will be a bad blow to our ability to >> easily and conveniently research the past, > >No, this doesn't follow. If we use ChangeLog formats in commit >messages, we can still research the past easily and conveniently. > >> If we drop the ChangeLog files, there's no way we can explain why we >> ask for commit log messages in ChangeLog format, so the next logical >> step is to drop that as well, and we will then lose valuable >> information. > >It's not a logical step at all, and we already have an explanation of >why we ask for ChangeLog format in CONTRIBUTE. Perhaps the explanation >can be improved, but that's true no matter what approach we take >(assuming we continue to prefer ChangeLog format). What Paul said. The conflation of "ChangeLog-style entries" with "ChangeLog files" has been a persistent anti-pattern in this discussion. It just causes confusion. It would help if we remained clear about the distinction, since the former does not imply the latter. This isn't merely a theoretical distinction. I've been writing all my commit messages in the style of a ChangeLog entry for as long as I can remember (not just in this project), and 'git log' shows that other developers have been doing that in this project too. Which is good, since that's exactly what the CONTRIBUTE guidelines currently recommend. -K