From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mike Gerwitz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: official Emacs Docker image Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 21:56:43 -0500 Message-ID: <87lgtmd5p0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87k29gsgam.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87k29cmq1u.fsf@elephly.net> <8737g0qw7z.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87vasvnvty.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87bmumrkzn.fsf@flea> <87tw8cr7v0.fsf@flea> <87wpd7rc70.fsf@xsteve.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1486177989 8166 195.159.176.226 (4 Feb 2017 03:13:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 03:13:09 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan =?utf-8?Q?Reich=C3=B6r?= , Emacs developers To: Filipe Silva Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 04 04:13:04 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqmc-0001kB-8D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 04 Feb 2017 04:13:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37794 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqmg-0000o2-AU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:13:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47515) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqlr-0000nk-17 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:12:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqlp-0003VN-Lr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:12:15 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:42171) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqlp-0003VJ-I3; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:12:13 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56081 helo=mikegerwitz-pc.gerwitz.local) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1cZqlo-0002hE-Ve; Fri, 03 Feb 2017 22:12:13 -0500 In-Reply-To: (Filipe Silva's message of "Fri, 3 Feb 2017 09:18:59 -0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:211950 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, Filipe: On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 09:18:59 -0200, Filipe Silva wrote: > Mike Gerwitz, back to the topic, you've posted an issue on the github sit= e, > which is run with non-free software, and I'm pretty sure that it runs > non-free javascript. The fact that you will be running "non-free" > javascript seems a bit unescapeable, doesn't it? I was expecting this point to come up. ;) I first want to state that I do not recommend that anyone make use of GitHub for their own projects. I have contacted them in the past asking them if they're liberate their JavaScript, and they stated that they have no interest in doing so: https://mikegerwitz.com/about/githubbub Further, GitHub does not meet the GNU Project's ethical repository criteria for those reasons and more: https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria.html GitHub does serve and often relies on non-free JavaScript. Fortunately, many things happen to work without it, or work well enough. I do not run JavaScript in my browser even for sites with free JS, with very few exceptions. I'm able to log in to GitHub, open issues, and comment on issues without running any JavaScript, among other things. I don't use GitHub personally anymore aside from a mirror for certain projects (and my employer uses it, so I'll push liberated code here on their behalf), but in the past, there were certain things I'd have simply Greasemonkey scripts for. For example, you couldn't (and probably still can't) change the repository description without running non-free JS. So I briefly studied what I did and wrote a free replacement for that functionality (which was trivial). Now, as a direct parallel to this Docker Hub discussion: It isn't reasonable to register an account on GitHub without running non-free JS.[*] It happens that I registered an account a number of years back (2009) when I was still relatively new to the free software movement and didn't consider JS as a possible issue. Since I have an account and can use it without running non-free JS, I will use it when pressed. But I will never recommend that someone else create an account or otherwise use GitHub. Hopefully that answers you question. Just because a site serves non-free JS doesn't mean that it needs it. Websites would be wise and respectful to consider a progressive enhancement methodology.[0] [*] I was able to register a new account (which successfully logs in): The first registration page required no JS, and the second page didn't want to move forward because of HTML5 validations on hidden (Credit Card) fields. I removed those fields from the DOM and was able to continue successfully. This also worked over Tor and served no CAPTCHA. So I could trivially write a script/bookmarklet that a user could use to register, but I wouldn't want to do that, since they still rely on proprietary JS for so many other things. If I did _not_ have a GitHub account, and creating one were the only way I could report issues like this Docker Hub one for reasons of activism, I would create an account using this method. I have no such workaround for Docker Hub. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement =2D-=20 Mike Gerwitz Free Software Hacker+Activist | GNU Maintainer & Volunteer GPG: D6E9 B930 028A 6C38 F43B 2388 FEF6 3574 5E6F 6D05 Old: 2217 5B02 E626 BC98 D7C0 C2E5 F22B B815 8EE3 0EAB https://mikegerwitz.com --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYlULsAAoJEIyRe39dxRuigQ0P/1tQro9TF7X82+3V/GXN91FC OVvmdUBy8uTWKSi/c0OS2KsQ6wCXCTQrGSJwwi3RyClc/do119Ah+iZvO/ho0oJ8 S7Yoe+Yt71C6x3Qxgzoub81yU8R7VmxPSNh9PCTAXluSBuRzT+701WE/BmFSWsYo H3naJSgwJLNymBtgZJC1CmTlDGxZ6btA2sJ29PQgj3GzgnqsQf5GQGmpTN37ADOi rf7fFUvj1yjguqZg0ljaUKaOOv+cuL1++u674voO6+jPmHQteUhn08riTKZT7IGN 8n78+1gd7yYsjnSM3Ck+anHrFfFU0O542nwBrd0iLqCtSkFN4yAvqBeEKIzAPjX1 QB6lUnUwAtTvWnxC9dpwKL7pcYAz5q+tsKq2VMEbOthoTdT/OaXEIeL0y7edIw4V f4iAxFPdnvlrR0wPO8fSQ0qv99RqAGgRCXQX6oNbvDVrpI7lBLTNSlzTGi38o+Zb i89awsT0DJAyJTW6QZqZ1CmG+ZmCZeGdNoa12L2KhaEUE1CYyhws8bCSmqDYo/46 dmQHXdAyd8Ed/r4Ty29HCNkASxjF+NHQ+TwHv9tqquNBU8IrFc/ESMLVtvSmK7lH SmCp7ctKSpv05wd7r0QPdsesQQQmTNcyFOuFGe+qQxsGTMBpWTZAarywfsVhtoXp NlGT7pTj+F3Yaaw9TW8s =OEqQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--