Gnus and emails sent by me

Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Hi,

I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
can quickly help me with them, it would be great!

1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
   replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
   after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
2. Sometimes, Gnus won't mark articles read in Gmail and will display
   the again as unread if I quit and open Gnus again. What is usually
   the workflow Gnus users follow to avoid this issue?

Thanks,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Alberto Luaces]

Narendra Joshi writes:

> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>
> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.

I heard that you have to create a virtual group with your inbox and your
"sent" folders to link them together.

> 
> 2. Sometimes, Gnus won't mark articles read in Gmail and will display
> the again as unread if I quit and open Gnus again. What is usually the
> workflow Gnus users follow to avoid this issue?

That never happened to me, sorry.

-- 
Alberto

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Alberto Luaces <aluaces@udc.es> writes:

> Narendra Joshi writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
>> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>>
>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>
> I heard that you have to create a virtual group with your inbox and your
> "sent" folders to link them together.
I would need to read up on that. Thanks for the pointer! :)

Best,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>
> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.

You can try setting `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're using
nnimap, which I guess you are, this will search the whole server to find
messages to include in the thread, which should also find the messages
in your Sent folder.

> 2. Sometimes, Gnus won't mark articles read in Gmail and will display
>    the again as unread if I quit and open Gnus again. What is usually
>    the workflow Gnus users follow to avoid this issue?

Don't know about this one...

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
>> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>>
>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>
> You can try setting `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're using
> nnimap, which I guess you are, this will search the whole server to find
> messages to include in the thread, which should also find the messages
> in your Sent folder.
I tried it. It works but it is very slow. I tried it on this thread
itself and could only see the first two emails, not sure why that
happened. 

>> 2. Sometimes, Gnus won't mark articles read in Gmail and will display
>>    the again as unread if I quit and open Gnus again. What is usually
>>    the workflow Gnus users follow to avoid this issue?
>
> Don't know about this one...
No problem, I think pressing `g` syncs up things with Gmail. 

Best,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
>>> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>>>
>>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>>>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>>>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>>
>> You can try setting `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're using
>> nnimap, which I guess you are, this will search the whole server to find
>> messages to include in the thread, which should also find the messages
>> in your Sent folder.
> I tried it. It works but it is very slow. I tried it on this thread
> itself and could only see the first two emails, not sure why that
> happened. 

Yeah, it's totally dependent on the speed of the underlying search
engine, so it can be pretty slow. I think some caching might be going
on, but the first time is always a drag.

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>
>>> Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't figure out how to achieve the following in Gnus. If anyone
>>>> can quickly help me with them, it would be great!
>>>>
>>>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in threads? For example, my
>>>>    replies to emails in mailing lists are not shown in the thread even
>>>>    after I do 'A T' (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>>>
>>> You can try setting `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're using
>>> nnimap, which I guess you are, this will search the whole server to find
>>> messages to include in the thread, which should also find the messages
>>> in your Sent folder.
>> I tried it. It works but it is very slow. I tried it on this thread
>> itself and could only see the first two emails, not sure why that
>> happened. 
>
> Yeah, it's totally dependent on the speed of the underlying search
> engine, so it can be pretty slow. I think some caching might be going
> on, but the first time is always a drag.
>
This time I saw all the messages including the ones sent by me. The only
thing that I did was to remove configuration related to "archive" from
~/.newsrc.eld


-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> You can try setting
> `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're
> using nnimap, which I guess you are

OK, so it depends on the backend!
Then disregard my message, unless you're using
nnml, which I guess you aren't.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen wrote:
>
>> You can try setting
>> `gnus-refer-thread-use-nnir' to t. If you're
>> using nnimap, which I guess you are
>
> Ok, so it depends on the backend!
> Then disregard my message, unless you're using
> nnml, which I guess you aren't.

A Gcc header is added when I send a message with follow-up.

Gcc: Emacs
--text follows this line--


This is because I have this config:
#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq gnus-message-archive-method ""
      gnus-message-archive-group 'identity
      gnus-gcc-mark-as-read t
      gnus-gcc-self-resent-messages t)

#+end_src

It's strange that these emails are not present in the Group that is Gcc'ed.

-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Narendra Joshi wrote:

> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in
> threads? For example, my replies to emails in
> mailing lists are not shown in the thread
> even after I do 'A T'
> (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.

Try `gnus-summary-insert-old-articles'.

But: they should show up by default! Just like any
other post.

I know because I don't want them to, so I have
to kill myself in the score files.

With the above function, I can get them
visible again.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>
>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in
>> threads? For example, my replies to emails in
>> mailing lists are not shown in the thread
>> even after I do 'A T'
>> (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>
> Try `gnus-summary-insert-old-articles'.
>
> But: they should show up by default! Just like any
> other post.
Doing ^ changes nothing for me. 

I have this configuration:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(require 'bbdb)
(require 'bbdb-gnus)

(require 'gnus)
(require 'gnus-msg)
(require 'gnus-art)
(require 'gnus-async)


(require 'nnmail)
(require 'smtpmail)
(require 'message)

(require 'nnir)

(setq gnus-always-read-dribble-file t)

(setq smtpmail-smtp-server "smtp.gmail.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-service 587
      gnus-ignored-newsgroups "^to\\.\\|^[0-9. ]+\\( \\|$\\)\\|^[\"]\"[#'()]")

(setq send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it
      message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)

(setq gnus-visible-headers "^From:\\|^Newsgroups:\\|^Subject:\\|^Date:\\|^Followup-To:\\|^Reply-To:\\|^Summary:\\|^Keywords:\\|^To:\\|^[BGF]?Cc:\\|^Posted-To:\\|^Mail-Copies-To:\\|^Mail-Followup-To:\\|^Apparently-To:\\|^Gnus-Warning:\\|^Resent-From:\\|^X-Sent:\\|^User-Agent:\\|^X-Mailer:\\|^X-Newsreader:")

;; http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.emacs.gnus/browse_thread/thread/a673a74356e7141f
(when window-system
  (setq gnus-thread-hide-subtree t
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-indent "  "
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-root "● "
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-false-root "◯ "
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-indent "◎ "
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-vertical        "│"
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-leaf-with-other "├─► "
        gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-leaf     "╰─► "))

;; Article and thread sorting
(setq gnus-article-sort-functions
      '(gnus-article-sort-by-most-recent-date))
(setq gnus-thread-sort-functions
      '(gnus-thread-sort-by-most-recent-date))

(setq gnus-user-date-format-alist '((t . "%Y %b %d (%H:%M)"))
      gnus-summary-line-format (concat
                                "%0{%U%R%z%}"
                                "%3{│%}" "%1{%&user-date;%}" "%3{│%}" ;; date
                                "  "
                                "%4{%-20,20f%}" ;; name
                                "  "
                                "%3{│%}"
                                " "
                                "%1{%B%}"
                                "%s\n"))

(setq gnus-summary-display-arrow t)
(setq nnmail-split-fancy ......config....)
(setq gnus-select-method
      `(nnimap "gmail"
               (nnimap-address "imap.gmail.com")
               (nnir-search-engine imap)
               (nnimap-inbox "INBOX")
               (nnimap-stream ssl)
               (nnimap-split-methods ,nnmail-split-fancy)))

(setq gnus-asynchronous t
      gnus-use-article-prefetch t)

(setq mm-text-html-renderer 'gnus-w3m
      gnus-article-browse-delete-temp t)

(setq gnus-message-archive-method ""
      gnus-message-archive-group 'identity
      gnus-gcc-mark-as-read t
      gnus-gcc-self-resent-messages t)

;;; Treating mail
(setq gnus-treat-unsplit-urls t
      gnus-treat-capitalize-sentences t
      gnus-treat-leading-whitespace t
      gnus-treat-strip-multiple-blank-lines t
      gnus-treat-strip-cr t)

(provide 'gnus-config)
;;; gnus-config.el ends here

#+end_src


Could any of these things be doing it? 

Best,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Narendra Joshi wrote:

> Doing ^ changes nothing for me.

Right, we probably have different backends.
I'm on nnml.

    The mail back end most people use (because
    it is possibly the fastest) is ‘nnml’ [1]

The reason I use nnml is also you get all posts
as separate files, so you can apply the
everyday shell tools and Emacs editing
facilities on them with no friction.

[1] (info "(gnus) Choosing a Mail Back End")

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>
>> Doing ^ changes nothing for me.
>
> Right, we probably have different backends.
> I'm on nnml.
>
>     The mail back end most people use (because
>     it is possibly the fastest) is ‘nnml’ [1]
>
> The reason I use nnml is also you get all posts
> as separate files, so you can apply the
> everyday shell tools and Emacs editing
> facilities on them with no friction.
>
> [1] (info "(gnus) Choosing a Mail Back End")
I think I am using `nnimap`. I will check this out and most likely
switch to nnml.

Thanks,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Narendra Joshi wrote:

> I think I am using `nnimap`. I will check
> this out and most likely switch to nnml.

Good. At least in this case, checking is better
than thinking :)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:

> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>
>> I think I am using `nnimap`. I will check
>> this out and most likely switch to nnml.
>
> Good. At least in this case, checking is better
> than thinking :)
I had realized that after I sent the email. :) It's `imap` :) 

Does `nnml` require me to fetch mail to a local directory using an
auxiliary tool? 

Thank,
-- 
Narendra Joshi

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Narendra Joshi <narendraj9@gmail.com> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <moasen@zoho.com> writes:
>
>> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>>
>>> I think I am using `nnimap`. I will check
>>> this out and most likely switch to nnml.
>>
>> Good. At least in this case, checking is better
>> than thinking :)
> I had realized that after I sent the email. :) It's `imap` :) 
>
> Does `nnml` require me to fetch mail to a local directory using an
> auxiliary tool? 

If your mail server is imap, you'll probably just want to stick with
nnimap. You can jump through hoops to extract the mail to local
directories, but then you're losing the whole point of imap (syncing).
What's the advantage? If accessing a remote server is slow, you can get
the best of both worlds by mirroring to an imap server on your own
machine, and accessing that through Gnus. That's what I do, and
searching is fast enough that nnir thread referral doesn't feel slow.

Eric

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen wrote:

> If your mail server is imap, you'll probably
> just want to stick with nnimap. You can jump
> through hoops to extract the mail to local
> directories, but then you're losing the whole
> point of imap (syncing).
> What's the advantage?

Right, what's the advantage?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Narendra Joshi wrote:

> Does `nnml` require me to fetch mail to
> a local directory

Yes, the mails end up in groups of your choice.
For example, I have

    /home/incal/Mail/mail/misc/
    /home/incal/Mail/mail/sent/

and a couple more.

The mails end up as mostly ASCII text files,
one file for each mail, and as long as you
stick to the basic encodings, which should
always be stuck to, these files are as easy as
any to operate with your entire range of tools.

(Not that you *have* to. You can just use Gnus
to read them, reply to them, and later on
review them whenever you like.)

> using an auxiliary tool?

Not that I'm aware of. I'm on Raspbian,
a Debian fork, and before that, on Debian.

On the whole, I think the rule of thumb is, use
nnml unless you know a specific reason not to.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Emanuel Berg]

Narendra Joshi wrote:

> I had realized that after I sent the email.
> :) It's `imap` :)

OTOH if you are planning to stay on IMAP (the
protocol) I don't see why nnimap (the Gnus
backend) should be a poor choice.

(I'm on POP with my nnml.)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Maxim Cournoyer]

> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>
>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in
>> threads? For example, my replies to emails in
>> mailing lists are not shown in the thread
>> even after I do 'A T'
>> (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>

You might be interested in C-u A T, which works well with the nnimap
backend which you seem to be using. The non-numeric prefix (C-u) makes
it search through all the groups (which you want if you need it to show
your sent emails which are typically stored in another group).

From the documentation (C-h k A T):

    (gnus-summary-refer-thread &optional LIMIT)

    Fetch all articles in the current thread. For backends that
    know how to search for threads (currently only ’nnimap) a
    non-numeric prefix arg will use nnir to search the entire
    server; without a prefix arg only the current group is
    searched.
    [...]

HTH!

Maxim

Re: Gnus and emails sent by me

[Narendra Joshi]

Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> writes:

>> Narendra Joshi wrote:
>>
>>> 1. How to have messages sent by me shown in
>>> threads? For example, my replies to emails in
>>> mailing lists are not shown in the thread
>>> even after I do 'A T'
>>> (gnus-summary-refer-thread) on the thread.
>>
>
> You might be interested in C-u A T, which works well with the nnimap
> backend which you seem to be using. The non-numeric prefix (C-u) makes
> it search through all the groups (which you want if you need it to show
> your sent emails which are typically stored in another group).
This didn't work for me. But doing `o /` and selecting a big enough number
of messages accomplishes what I want. 

Thanks,
-- 
Narendra Joshi