From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 13:58:29 +0100 Message-ID: <87lg8eg4ui.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1o1a06q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <20180904203851.b7k3v7tefgr7s3yi@Ergus> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536238639 887 195.159.176.226 (6 Sep 2018 12:57:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 12:57:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 06 14:57:15 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtqV-000055-4f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 14:57:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33142 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtsb-0004l7-JB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 08:59:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52479) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtrr-0004k1-08 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 08:58:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtrm-0004wV-16 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 08:58:38 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:52111) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtrl-0004pl-M8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 08:58:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=g7bsvlgetvx2ei8ABJD1Ff5hwZhqhVovNZsYqgyjiVo=; b=yL62dyTd2csWBMQunY7RkZ9oS r/cxM4TTuJ094fbDiajCr772nuuGIylSFyCOFxxboB3hwxcBsuvzNd+iIw90JIp4kXKrMWOEOpQMF +B2uEtma9oW/I5PUG1iReCZ21POFAAMVLzb3d5m24ORMXBEcLvWog8eMYlX2vXurdQ2hg+z8A+BY0 LtB148Usc4SWt9Kf0Q7qp0/TPcKbXENUysQ+SkpTlYrbDI1e6h3fNKY10tQqLdXc5pcyb/qA7Xo+q RfCFe03eHpCqBnohocuz/jyvr3pxaR8hpHu8iM6UCY77ht15Fvr/1+9nMwxszDv4RCfVbWwYgxYJG 9OyIS8Q8g==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:49101 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fxtrk-00BJf4-6d; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 12:58:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20180904203851.b7k3v7tefgr7s3yi@Ergus> (Ergus's message of "Tue, 4 Sep 2018 22:38:51 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229343 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > On Tue, Sep 04, 2018 at 02:58:53PM +0200, Phillip Lord wrote: >>> Thanks. That tutorial looks like a somewhat expanded version of our >>> TUTORIAL; e.g., it has almost the same scope in terms of Emacs >>> features. I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that we were talking about a >>> tutorial for the next step -- for those who have read the original >>> TUTORIAL and want to learn about more advanced issues related to text >>> editing. >> >>It covers some never stuff, but yes, it is fairly similar. Personally, I >>would like to ditch all the "how to move around" with keys stuff -- this >>scares most people to hell, because they think that they need to learn >>this to do something that they already know how to do these things. >> > I thing mentioning that move with arrows + keybindings is possible and > would be a more elegant approach. Because some users know how to move in > bash or will find it interesting/useful to know that C-a, C-e, C-d, C-j, > C-i and so on are useful also in bash. This is backwards, I think. It's an Emacs tutorial not a bash one. > Some of them are easier to access in some keyboards (C-d in my case for > example). So maybe a table could have two columns with the > traditional and the "modern" alternative. And let the user choose (or mix). No. By definition, a tutorial is about teaching people things. People who need a tutorial are not in a place to make a sensible decision; we need to offer one solution, not a choice. People can choose later. Phil