Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings.

I hereby volunteer to maintain ob-asymptote.el. This file has been moved
to org-contrib, but I would like it to be brought back into Org itself.

I strongly feel that Asymptote is way too valuable as a scientific tool
to be dropped out of Org.

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Munyoki Kilyungi]

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Hi Jarmo!

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> anaandika:

> Greetings.
>
> I hereby volunteer to maintain ob-asymptote.el.

Nice!

> This file has been moved
> to org-contrib, but I would like it to be brought back into Org itself.
>
> I strongly feel that Asymptote is way too valuable as a scientific tool
> to be dropped out of Org.

Isn't this debatable?  TBH, this is the first time
I'm hearing about it.  I've looked it up, and
indeed it seems to be useful.  That said,
shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many
features in a tool - featurism - may be
distracting, in the sense that you focus more on
your tool than work at hand.  And that said, to
work around this, I reckon that's why (?) we have
org-contrib.  You - the end user - install what
you want/need.  Just my 2¢.

-- 
(Life is like a pencil that will surely run out,
    but will leave the beautiful writing of life.)
(D4F09EB110177E03C28E2FE1F5BBAE1E0392253F
    (hkp://keys.gnupg.net))

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Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings Munyoki.

Munyoki Kilyungi <me@bonfacemunyoki.com> writes:

> Hi Jarmo!
>
> Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> anaandika:
>
>> I hereby volunteer to maintain ob-asymptote.el.
>
> Nice!
>
>> This file has been moved
>> to org-contrib, but I would like it to be brought back into Org itself.
>>
>> I strongly feel that Asymptote is way too valuable as a scientific tool
>> to be dropped out of Org.

> Isn't this debatable?  

Yes, that is a good reason to be involved in these discussions.

> TBH, this is the first time I'm hearing about it.  I've looked it up,
> and indeed it seems to be useful.  

For some reason, even people who would certainly benefit from Asymptote
often have not heard of it. The developers do not really
advertise. Asymptote is amazingly powerful and sophisticated.

> That said, shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many features in a
> tool - featurism - may be distracting, in the sense that you focus
> more on your tool than work at hand.  

I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
when using Org?

> And that said, to work around this, I reckon that's why (?)  we have
> org-contrib.  You - the end user - install what you want/need. 

Yes, but whenever we split up support, we raise the threshold for the
use of a combination of tools, in this case Org and Asymptote.

Org is a very powerful publication tool. Does it not make complete sense
to include support for a tool for creating professional-quality
publication graphics?

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Munyoki Kilyungi]

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Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> anaandika:

> Greetings Munyoki.
>

Hi!

[...]

>> That said, shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many features in a
>> tool - featurism - may be distracting, in the sense that you focus
>> more on your tool than work at hand.  
>
> I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
> graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
> when using Org?
>

I'm not _against_ supporting a proffesional-level
graphics PL.  What I'm trying to say is that
having it installed should be a choice made by the
end-user.  Personally, I try to keep my systems as
minimal as I can make them; and as such I advocate
for users having that choice.  Very much by
opinions.  Nevertheless...

>> And that said, to work around this, I reckon that's why (?)  we have
>> org-contrib.  You - the end user - install what you want/need. 
>
> Yes, but whenever we split up support, we raise the threshold for the
> use of a combination of tools, in this case Org and Asymptote.
>

I agree with this.

> Org is a very powerful publication tool. Does it not make complete sense
> to include support for a tool for creating professional-quality
> publication graphics?
>

Makes sense.  Just not complete sense to me.  I
reckon I'll give this is a shot this coming
weekend and see how this goes.  Is this:
<https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html>
sufficient to get me started?

-- 
(Life is like a pencil that will surely run out,
    but will leave the beautiful writing of life.)
(D4F09EB110177E03C28E2FE1F5BBAE1E0392253F
    (hkp://keys.openpgp.org))

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Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Munyoki Kilyungi]

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Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> anaandika:

> Greetings Munyoki.
>

Hi!

[...]

>> That said, shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many features in a
>> tool - featurism - may be distracting, in the sense that you focus
>> more on your tool than work at hand.  
>
> I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
> graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
> when using Org?
>

I'm not _against_ supporting a proffesional-level
graphics PL.  What I'm trying to say is that
having it installed should be a choice made by the
end-user.  Personally, I try to keep my systems as
minimal as I can make them; and as such I advocate
for users having that choice.  Very much by
opinions.  Nevertheless...

>> And that said, to work around this, I reckon that's why (?)  we have
>> org-contrib.  You - the end user - install what you want/need. 
>
> Yes, but whenever we split up support, we raise the threshold for the
> use of a combination of tools, in this case Org and Asymptote.
>

I agree with this.

> Org is a very powerful publication tool. Does it not make complete sense
> to include support for a tool for creating professional-quality
> publication graphics?
>

Makes sense.  Just not complete sense to me.  I
reckon I'll give this is a shot this coming
weekend and see how this goes.  Is this:
<https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html>
sufficient to get me started?

-- 
(Life is like a pencil that will surely run out,
    but will leave the beautiful writing of life.)
(D4F09EB110177E03C28E2FE1F5BBAE1E0392253F
    (hkp://keys.openpgp.org))

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Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Greg Minshall]

hi, Munyoki,

i'm neutral w.r.t. asymptote support being in "core org" or in
"contrib".  but, ...

> I'm not _against_ supporting a proffesional-level
> graphics PL.  What I'm trying to say is that
> having it installed should be a choice made by the
> end-user.  Personally, I try to keep my systems as
> minimal as I can make them; and as such I advocate
> for users having that choice.  Very much by
> opinions.  Nevertheless...

in terms of keeping systems minimal, probably you knew this, but i just
wanted to mention that even if ob-asymptote.el is in "core org", the
user will not be required to install asymptote itself.

cheers, Greg

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Hello Munyoki.

Munyoki Kilyungi <me@bonfacemunyoki.com> writes:

>> I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
>> graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
>> when using Org?
>
> I'm not _against_ supporting a proffesional-level graphics PL.  What
> I'm trying to say is that having it installed should be a choice made
> by the end-user.

I think someone already mentioned that having ob-asymptote.el within Org
does not require the end users to install anything.

> I reckon I'll give this is a shot this coming weekend and see how this
> goes.  Is this:
> <https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html>
> sufficient to get me started?

It is sufficient, but I am not sure whether those examples are a good
way to start.

If you want to get acquainted with Asymptote, I suggest that after
setting it up you take a minimal example like the following

#+begin_src asymptote :file result-figure.pdf
size (8cm, 0);
#+end_src

and then use various sources such as the ones below to explore and learn:

- Charles Staats' Asymptote tutorial

  https://asymptote.sourceforge.io/asymptote_tutorial.pdf

- Asymptote manual

  https://asymptote.sourceforge.io/asymptote.pdf

- Art of Problem Solving forums, which use Asymptote as their built-in
  graphics language, e.g.

  https://artofproblemsolving.com/community/c5h2782914_another_hexagon_problem

  (click on a diagram to see the corresponding Asymptote code).

  see also

  https://artofproblemsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Asymptote:_Getting_Started

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

>> TBH, this is the first time I'm hearing about it.  I've looked it up,
>> and indeed it seems to be useful.  
>
> For some reason, even people who would certainly benefit from Asymptote
> often have not heard of it. The developers do not really
> advertise. Asymptote is amazingly powerful and sophisticated.

Then, it would help to have more practical examples compared to what we
have in
https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html

>> That said, shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many features in a
>> tool - featurism - may be distracting, in the sense that you focus
>> more on your tool than work at hand.  
>
> I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
> graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
> when using Org?

That a common minimalist argument. Some people dislike the fact that
software includes features they do not personally use. Similar arguments
are often raised regarding, for example, games shipped with Emacs.

I disagree in this particular case. Having ob-asymptote.el is not a
featurism - I would not expect people to play around a full new
programming language just because ob-language.el is in Org. The barrier
of entry is too high to make it destructing.

Another question is long-term maintainability. We have a limited
manpower and cannot cater too many support requests or take care about
parts of code not used by most people. After removing org-contrib over a
year ago, your email is the first issue raised regarding ob-asymptote
removal. Since you are volunteering to maintain it, things gets easier.
However, the final decision is after Bastien.

>> And that said, to work around this, I reckon that's why (?)  we have
>> org-contrib.  You - the end user - install what you want/need. 
>
> Yes, but whenever we split up support, we raise the threshold for the
> use of a combination of tools, in this case Org and Asymptote.
>
> Org is a very powerful publication tool. Does it not make complete sense
> to include support for a tool for creating professional-quality
> publication graphics?

Apparently asymptote is not commonly used (at least, not in my research
field). We do provide built-in support for Gnuplot, LaTeX TikZ, and
Python (Matplotlib), PlantUML. AFAIK, they are much more common.

Best,
Ihor

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:
>>> TBH, this is the first time I'm hearing about it.  I've looked it
>>> up, and indeed it seems to be useful.
>>
>> For some reason, even people who would certainly benefit from
>> Asymptote often have not heard of it. The developers do not really
>> advertise. Asymptote is amazingly powerful and sophisticated.
>
> Then, it would help to have more practical examples compared to what
> we have in
> https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html

Absolutely. I have plenty of examples from the domains of math and
computer science.

>>> That said, shouldn't this be in org-contrib?  Too many features in a
>>> tool - featurism - may be distracting, in the sense that you focus
>>> more on your tool than work at hand.
>>
>> I do not understand this. Why would supporting a professional-level
>> graphics programming language be distracting someone from their work
>> when using Org?
>
> That a common minimalist argument. Some people dislike the fact that
> software includes features they do not personally use. Similar
> arguments are often raised regarding, for example, games shipped with
> Emacs.

I do not see Org as a "minimalist" system. I see it as glue.

I think one of the great powers of Org mode is its capability to act
together with various systems, including LaTeX and a host of programming
languages. I would never imagine that Org would only support the tools I
use, but I expect to be positively surprised by the fact that Org will
support, out of the box, something that I am not using now but will be
using in the future.

> I disagree in this particular case. Having ob-asymptote.el is not a
> featurism - I would not expect people to play around a full new
> programming language just because ob-language.el is in Org. The
> barrier of entry is too high to make it destructing.

I am not sure I can interpret your text correctly. But if you are saying
that builtin support for Asymptote will not lower the threshold of its
use among Org users, I would ask the following questions:
- How many Org users are already capable of programming?
- How many Org users prefer code-based representations to other forms?

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

>> Then, it would help to have more practical examples compared to what
>> we have in
>> https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html
>
> Absolutely. I have plenty of examples from the domains of math and
> computer science.

Feel free to submit patches against https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

>> That a common minimalist argument. Some people dislike the fact that
>> software includes features they do not personally use. Similar
>> arguments are often raised regarding, for example, games shipped with
>> Emacs.
>
> I do not see Org as a "minimalist" system. I see it as glue.
>
> I think one of the great powers of Org mode is its capability to act
> together with various systems, including LaTeX and a host of programming
> languages. I would never imagine that Org would only support the tools I
> use, but I expect to be positively surprised by the fact that Org will
> support, out of the box, something that I am not using now but will be
> using in the future.

I am not arguing with you. Just pointed that some people have different
point of view.

>> I disagree in this particular case. Having ob-asymptote.el is not a
>> featurism - I would not expect people to play around a full new
>> programming language just because ob-language.el is in Org. The
>> barrier of entry is too high to make it destructing.
>
> I am not sure I can interpret your text correctly. But if you are saying
> that builtin support for Asymptote will not lower the threshold of its
> use among Org users, I would ask the following questions:
> - How many Org users are already capable of programming?
> - How many Org users prefer code-based representations to other forms?

Nope. This is not what I am saying.
I am saying that ob-asymptote will not be on the way of users who are
exploring Org and do not intend to use Asymptote. It is only useful for
people who deliberately look into Asymptote code blocks. Others will not
ever need to try it (that would require installing Asymptote and other
high-threshold actions).

Best,
Ihor

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

>> Then, it would help to have more practical examples compared to what
>> we have in
>> https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html
>
> Absolutely. I have plenty of examples from the domains of math and
> computer science.

Feel free to submit patches against https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg

>> That a common minimalist argument. Some people dislike the fact that
>> software includes features they do not personally use. Similar
>> arguments are often raised regarding, for example, games shipped with
>> Emacs.
>
> I do not see Org as a "minimalist" system. I see it as glue.
>
> I think one of the great powers of Org mode is its capability to act
> together with various systems, including LaTeX and a host of programming
> languages. I would never imagine that Org would only support the tools I
> use, but I expect to be positively surprised by the fact that Org will
> support, out of the box, something that I am not using now but will be
> using in the future.

I am not arguing with you. Just pointed that some people have different
point of view.

>> I disagree in this particular case. Having ob-asymptote.el is not a
>> featurism - I would not expect people to play around a full new
>> programming language just because ob-language.el is in Org. The
>> barrier of entry is too high to make it destructing.
>
> I am not sure I can interpret your text correctly. But if you are saying
> that builtin support for Asymptote will not lower the threshold of its
> use among Org users, I would ask the following questions:
> - How many Org users are already capable of programming?
> - How many Org users prefer code-based representations to other forms?

Nope. This is not what I am saying.
I am saying that ob-asymptote will not be on the way of users who are
exploring Org and do not intend to use Asymptote. It is only useful for
people who deliberately look into Asymptote code blocks. Others will not
ever need to try it (that would require installing Asymptote and other
high-threshold actions).

Best,
Ihor

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Tim Cross]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> Another question is long-term maintainability. We have a limited
> manpower and cannot cater too many support requests or take care about
> parts of code not used by most people. After removing org-contrib over a
> year ago, your email is the first issue raised regarding ob-asymptote
> removal. Since you are volunteering to maintain it, things gets easier.
> However, the final decision is after Bastien.
>

and I don't think it is a decision which has to be made now.

It is fantastic someone has stepped up to maintain this code. However,
it may be wise to wait 12 months before making an important decision
like moving it into core. While moving something into core may seem
easy, moving it back out tends to be more problematic and require more
change management to avoid unexpected impact to org users (including
none users of this module who could also be impacted by any breakage
introduced).

As this module has never been part of org core, there is considerable
work which would need to be done as a prerequisite e.g. updating the
manual and adding documentation and examples, adding unit tests
etc. Therefore, I don't think there is any need to make a decision on
this now.

I also think it is prudent to allow any new maintainer some period of
time to get to grips with the maintenance role. Once something becomes
part of core, maintenance demands can increase significantly. For
example, any significant change in org mode or Emacs will need to be
addressed in a timely manner to prevent issues with ob-asymptote
impacting org usage generally. From a maintainers perspective, it often
means having to run multiple versions of both Emacs and org mode,
keeping an eye on org and Eamcs bug reports and responding to user
queries.

In addition to all of this, there is also the unexpected burden of
success. If you actually do a good job, the amount of maintenance work
can actually increase. I speak from personal experience. I took over
maintenance of a small nodejs module about 5 years ago. At the time,
this module had only a few thousand downloads per week. It now averages
around 225k weekly downloads. Code maintenance has not been a
problem. However, user maintenance has been a considerable burden. I
have ended up spending far more time writing documentation, providing
usage examples and helping users than I expected. I would estimate over
80% of all the issues raised by users are due to errors in user code
(most have nothing to do with my module, but I still need to
investigate to verify that). What makes matters harder is that the
module concerned is not one I need any longer. At some point, I will
likely hand maintenance on (assuming someone wants it of course). The
thing to note is that the level of expected maintenance and actual
maintenance can be surprisingly different and it doesn't take much
before that role can become a burden, especially if you have other
demanding work needing attention.  

Finally, we don't actually know what the user base size for asymptote
currently is or could be. I've used org for many years and I've used
plantuml, ditta, graphviz and gnuplot, but I've never used
ob-asymptote. While this may appear to be a critical tool in some use
case groups, it may not be an overall critical module for the overall
org user base. I'm also not convinced that being in contrib rather than
core is really an impediment as suggested. Now that org-contrib is part
of non-gnu ELPA and that archive is automatically configured in new
versions of Emacs, adding org-contrib is fairly trivial. I suspect many
users already add it as part of their setup anyway.

While personally I don't agree with adding more things into core, my
main point is we don't need to make this decision now. We can wait 12
months and if whoever is maintaining the mode still wants to see it
moved into core and if all the prerequisite work has been completed, we
can then put it to the community and see what the overall consensus
is. In the meantime, the mode maintainer can work on building the use
base and strengthening their case for inclusion and getting a real feel
for what the maintenance demands are. 

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> As this module has never been part of org core, there is considerable
> work which would need to be done as a prerequisite e.g. updating the
> manual and adding documentation and examples, adding unit tests
> etc. Therefore, I don't think there is any need to make a decision on
> this now.

You are not right.
ob-asymptote has been moved out of the core after

https://orgmode.org/list/87bl9rq29m.fsf@gnu.org
Subject: Moving some lisp/ob-*.el files to org-contrib - your advice?

So, we are not talking about adding a new library into the core. Rather
about a late voice against moving it out.

Best,
Ihor

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Tim Cross]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> As this module has never been part of org core, there is considerable
>> work which would need to be done as a prerequisite e.g. updating the
>> manual and adding documentation and examples, adding unit tests
>> etc. Therefore, I don't think there is any need to make a decision on
>> this now.
>
> You are not right.
> ob-asymptote has been moved out of the core after
>
> https://orgmode.org/list/87bl9rq29m.fsf@gnu.org
> Subject: Moving some lisp/ob-*.el files to org-contrib - your advice?
>
> So, we are not talking about adding a new library into the core. Rather
> about a late voice against moving it out.
>

Interesting. I made that assumption based on the org-contrib git log,
which showed edtries for this module back in 2010.

Still, I don't think that invalidates any of the points I was
making. The module has not been part of core for over 12 months and this
is the first mention of it. I think we should wait 12 months and see how
the maintenance and development of the module goes. After 12 months, if
there is still interest in moving it into core and if it has sufficient
documentation, examples and unit tests, this can be reviewed. 

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Max Nikulin]

On 27/07/2022 11:09, Tim Cross wrote:
> Ihor Radchenko writes:
> 
>> ob-asymptote has been moved out of the core after
>>
>> https://orgmode.org/list/87bl9rq29m.fsf@gnu.org
>> Subject: Moving some lisp/ob-*.el files to org-contrib - your advice?
>>
>> So, we are not talking about adding a new library into the core. Rather
>> about a late voice against moving it out.
…
> Still, I don't think that invalidates any of the points I was
> making. The module has not been part of core for over 12 months and this
> is the first mention of it. I think we should wait 12 months and see how
> the maintenance and development of the module goes. After 12 months, if
> there is still interest in moving it into core and if it has sufficient
> documentation, examples and unit tests, this can be reviewed.

I suppose, 12 months since removal of the package is not really 
significant duration for those who use packages from their linux 
distributions. How many releases have been affected by such change? 
ubuntu has new elpa-org package, but emacs-27 has an older version. 
Fedora has emacs-27 as well and unsure concerning a separate org package.

After next 12 month there will be little point to add the package back. 
It will cause more disturbance for users.

Perhaps Asymptote project is more suitable for ob-asymptote.el, but it 
seems in this particular case Jarmo more close to Org project that to 
Asymptote.

I had asymptote in my bookmarks for a long time, but usually I am 
satisfied with quality of plots that I can achieve in gnuplot or ROOT, 
so I have never tried asymptote. Frankly speaking, 
https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html 
contrived examples do not motivate me.

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings again, Ihor.

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:

> After removing org-contrib over a year ago, your email is the first
> issue raised regarding ob-asymptote removal.

This is an interesting observation.

I have been using Asymptote with Org all the time, with the latest Org
from ELPA. Only when my distribution upgraded Emacs to 28.1 did errors
about ob-asymptote.el start popping up. So ob-asymptote.el must have
crept in from some directory this entire time.

I am not claming there are (lots of) ob-asymptote.el users out there,
just pointing out why this discussion takes place one year after the
fact.

Will return to other messages later, got to run now (literally).

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Bastien]

Hi Jarmo,

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

> I hereby volunteer to maintain ob-asymptote.el. This file has been moved
> to org-contrib, but I would like it to be brought back into Org itself.

I added Luc (cc'ed) as the maintainer of ob-asymptote.el a while ago:

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=27621a5b

Perhaps you can discuss with him to decide whether you both want to
maintain this file or just one of you?

As maintainer(s) or ob-asymptote.el, the first step should probably
be to package it for GNU ELPA: both you and Luc have signed the FSF
copyright assignment, so there is no blocker for joining GNU ELPA.
Then we can move it out of org-contrib, which just serves as a
transitory repository.

For now, I'd rather be conservative with what is added to Org's core:
GNU ELPA is reachable enough for "niche" features.  If/when Asymptote
gets more support within Emacs core, we can move ob-asymptote.el in
Org's core back again.

Would that be okay for you (both)?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings Bastien!

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

>> I hereby volunteer to maintain ob-asymptote.el. This file has been
>> moved to org-contrib, but I would like it to be brought back into Org
>> itself.
>
> I added Luc (cc'ed) as the maintainer of ob-asymptote.el a while ago:
>
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git/commit/?id=27621a5b
>
> Perhaps you can discuss with him to decide whether you both want to
> maintain this file or just one of you?

I do not wish to "steal" ob-asymptote.el from anyone; if Luc is happy
being the maintainer, this is fine by me.

In fact, perhaps it would be best at this point if Luc would maintain
ob-asymptote.el and I would create a good set of examples in Worg:

https://www.orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/ob-doc-asymptote.html

If ob-asymptote.el is moved out of org-contrib, where whould this page
reside?

> As maintainer(s) or ob-asymptote.el, the first step should probably be
> to package it for GNU ELPA: both you and Luc have signed the FSF
> copyright assignment, so there is no blocker for joining GNU ELPA.
> Then we can move it out of org-contrib, which just serves as a
> transitory repository.

This is an excellent idea. I would certainly want ob-asymptote.el out of
org-contrib, since the advertisement for org-contrib almost guarantees
that the files are not maintained. :-)

> For now, I'd rather be conservative with what is added to Org's core:
> GNU ELPA is reachable enough for "niche" features.  If/when Asymptote
> gets more support within Emacs core, we can move ob-asymptote.el in
> Org's core back again.
>
> Would that be okay for you (both)?

This is fine by me. I can start marketing to increase level of interest.

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Bastien]

Hi Jarmo,

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

>> As maintainer(s) or ob-asymptote.el, the first step should probably be
>> to package it for GNU ELPA: both you and Luc have signed the FSF
>> copyright assignment, so there is no blocker for joining GNU ELPA.
>> Then we can move it out of org-contrib, which just serves as a
>> transitory repository.
>
> This is an excellent idea. I would certainly want ob-asymptote.el out of
> org-contrib, since the advertisement for org-contrib almost guarantees
> that the files are not maintained. :-)

Did you manage to get feedback from Luc, maintainer of ob-asymptote.el
on org-contrib to decide who will maintain it, where to host it?  It
seems like having ob-asymptote.el on GNU ELPA would be very good.

Let us know how it goes, thanks!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings Bastien.

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

> Did you manage to get feedback from Luc, maintainer of ob-asymptote.el
> on org-contrib to decide who will maintain it, where to host it?  It
> seems like having ob-asymptote.el on GNU ELPA would be very good.

Not yet, but after my recent return from the land of the dead
(a.k.a. work), I just threw another email at Luc. I will let you know.

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

> Greetings Bastien.
>
> Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Did you manage to get feedback from Luc, maintainer of ob-asymptote.el
>> on org-contrib to decide who will maintain it, where to host it?  It
>> seems like having ob-asymptote.el on GNU ELPA would be very good.

I am wondering who is Luc. I see no trace of him in the mailing list
archives and in the commit logs.

> Not yet, but after my recent return from the land of the dead
> (a.k.a. work), I just threw another email at Luc. I will let you know.

Jarmo, did you hear anything from Luc? There was no action in
ob-asymptote for over a year. If the current maintainer does not reply
to email requests related to ob-asymptote, I'd rather transfer to
maintenance to someone more active.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings Ihor.

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Jarmo, did you hear anything from Luc? There was no action in
> ob-asymptote for over a year. If the current maintainer does not reply
> to email requests related to ob-asymptote, I'd rather transfer to
> maintenance to someone more active.

Nope. I sent him another email some weeks ago, no response.

Let me know how we will proceed.

All the best,

Jarmo

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Ihor Radchenko]

Jarmo Hurri <jarmo.hurri@iki.fi> writes:

> Greetings Ihor.
>
> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> Jarmo, did you hear anything from Luc? There was no action in
>> ob-asymptote for over a year. If the current maintainer does not reply
>> to email requests related to ob-asymptote, I'd rather transfer to
>> maintenance to someone more active.
>
> Nope. I sent him another email some weeks ago, no response.
>
> Let me know how we will proceed.

I am CCing Bastien.

Bastien, ob-asymptote is still a part of org-contrib [1]. 
Should we just go ahead and change the maintainer now?

[1] https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org-contrib/tree/master/item/lisp/ob-asymptote.el

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Bastien]

Hi,

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Bastien, ob-asymptote is still a part of org-contrib [1]. 
> Should we just go ahead and change the maintainer now?
>
> [1] https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org-contrib/tree/master/item/lisp/ob-asymptote.el

Yes, done.  Thanks Jarmo for taking over the maintenance!

Feel free to package ob-asymptote.el as a GNU ELPA package so that it
gets more users and let me know when this is done so that I can remove
it from org-contrib.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Volunteering to maintain ob-asymptote.el within Org

[Jarmo Hurri]

Greetings Bastien.

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

>> Bastien, ob-asymptote is still a part of org-contrib [1].  Should we
>> just go ahead and change the maintainer now?
>>
>> [1] https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/org-contrib/tree/master/item/lisp/ob-asymptote.el
>
> Yes, done.  Thanks Jarmo for taking over the maintenance!
>
> Feel free to package ob-asymptote.el as a GNU ELPA package so that it
> gets more users and let me know when this is done so that I can remove
> it from org-contrib.

Will do so.

All the best,

Jarmo