A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n zine
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA
would be a nice idea.  Somewhere where new packages and releases can not
only be announced but also commented on and "reviewed".  Perhaps also a
place where people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
packages can find new maintainers.  Basically anything on the topic of
Emacs packages, in one package.

Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
initiate something more concrete?

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Emanuel Berg]

Philip Kaludercic wrote:

> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n
> zine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for
> {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA would be a nice idea. Somewhere where new
> packages and releases can not only be announced but also
> commented on and "reviewed". Perhaps also a place where
> people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
> packages can find new maintainers. Basically anything on the
> topic of Emacs packages, in one package.
>
> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy,
> and I don't know if it is worth it to begin with. I am
> wondering if anyone else things this is a good idea and
> would be interested in participating to initiate something
> more concrete?

Good idea, but why not an Emacs newsletter in general
(including the ELPAs)?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

Emanuel Berg <incal@dataswamp.org> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>
>> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n
>> zine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for
>> {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA would be a nice idea. Somewhere where new
>> packages and releases can not only be announced but also
>> commented on and "reviewed". Perhaps also a place where
>> people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
>> packages can find new maintainers. Basically anything on the
>> topic of Emacs packages, in one package.
>>
>> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy,
>> and I don't know if it is worth it to begin with. I am
>> wondering if anyone else things this is a good idea and
>> would be interested in participating to initiate something
>> more concrete?
>
> Good idea, but why not an Emacs newsletter in general
> (including the ELPAs)?

That project is greater in scope, and would require more effort.  The
idea I had was really just to highlight and promote ELPA packages.

That being said, perhaps it wouldn't be out of place to mention changes
and news from core Emacs development?

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Sacha Chua]

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Hello, Philip, all!

On Sat, Oct 15, 2022, 05:41 Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

> That project is greater in scope, and would require more effort.  The
> idea I had was really just to highlight and promote ELPA packages.
> That being said, perhaps it wouldn't be out of place to mention changes
> and news from core Emacs development?
>

Sounds like fun. :) I don't have the time to do it myself (focusing on
EmacsConf at the moment), but if you want to start by writing package
highlights, I'd be happy to link to it in Emacs News.

Sacha

>

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Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[John Yates]

These goals seem to conflate multiple wishes:

> Somewhere where new packages and releases can not only be announced
Announcements have limited shelf life.  They should be handled via
some form of notification mechanism.  Perhaps an ELPA section in
Sacha's Emacs News would suffice.

> but also commented on and "reviewed".
This seems to suggest a review site.  (A quick web search suggests
that there are frameworks out there to facilitate creating such
sites.)  That said, posting opinions seems of low value and rarely
actionable (see below).

> Perhaps also a place where people can post ideas for packages
This is a conversation.  Would not a mailing list suffice.  What is
wrong with help-gnu-emacs?

> or where abandoned packages can find new maintainers.
How would this relate to https://github.com/emacsattic?

> Basically anything on the topic of Emacs packages, in one package.
Seems too amorphous to be sustainable.

My two cents...

I am very impressed with Eli's leadership of emacs development.  Look
at all the goodness that is going into version 29, his commitment to
tightening the release cadence, his willingness to say 'no' to both
RMS and bikeshedders, etc.  To have my support, a proposal should
serve to enhance Eli's contributions.

More immediately, look at his effort to drive toward better
abstraction and unification of the existing find-file and
find-sibling-file with Damien Cassou's pending related-files.  This is
exactly the sort of effort I would hope to support.  I see such
activities as curation.  Thus I could imagine an emacs-curate mailing
list.  I would be happy to subscribe.

/john

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Sacha Chua]

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On Sat, Oct 15, 2022, 11:25 John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:

>
 mechanism.  Perhaps an ELPA section in
> Sacha's Emacs News would suffice.
>

I have a list of new packages at the end of the newsletter, and I've
recently started indicating their package archive as well. In addition, I
email info-gnu-emacs@gnu.org when I notice new GNU ELPA packages.

> but also commented on and "reviewed".
> This seems to suggest a review site.  (A quick web search suggests
> that there are frameworks out there to facilitate creating such
> sites.)  That said, posting opinions seems of low value and rarely
> actionable (see below).
>

Prot does a great job of writing blog posts and often making videos about
his new packages, which are usually posted to GNU ELPA. I link to these in
Emacs News, and they'll probably come up in searches as well. I notice that
interesting new packages tend to get picked up in blog posts and Reddit
threads in the weeks after the packages are published. I currently don't
have the time to summarize posts beyond quick links, but perhaps someone
would like to do a monthly round up like the way This Month in Org does?

>
> Perhaps also a place where people can post ideas for packages
> This is a conversation.  Would not a mailing list suffice.  What is
> wrong with help-gnu-emacs?
>

I sometimes see conversations like that grow out of mailing lists or
web-based forums like Reddit. Ideas are pretty easy to float, though, and
it's hard to match them up with a person with the same itch. It seems to
work out better when people share what they've figured out so far, then
other people say they want something like that too, and then the code gets
turned into a package.

> or where abandoned packages can find new maintainers.
> How would this relate to https://github.com/emacsattic?
>

When there's an announcement, I usually put it in a Help Wanted section at
the start of Emacs News.

I am very impressed with Eli's leadership of emacs development.


Eli is awesome!

More immediately, look at his effort to drive toward better
> abstraction and unification of the existing find-file and
> find-sibling-file with Damien Cassou's pending related-files.  This is
> exactly the sort of effort I would hope to support.  I see such
> activities as curation.  Thus I could imagine an emacs-curate mailing
> list.  I would be happy to subscribe.
>

Andres Ramirez has been sending me links to interesting emacs-devel
messages for possible inclusion in Emacs News. I'd love to get other
people's links and notes as well. I read emacs-devel on a very cursory
level (mostly looking at subjects and what Eli replies :) ), so extra
context would be great!

Sacha

>

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Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:

>> but also commented on and "reviewed".  This seems to suggest a review
>> site.  (A quick web search suggests that there are frameworks out
>> there to facilitate creating such sites.)  That said, posting
>> opinions seems of low value and rarely actionable (see below).
>
> Prot does a great job of writing blog posts and often making videos about
> his new packages, which are usually posted to GNU ELPA. I link to these in
> Emacs News, and they'll probably come up in searches as well. I notice that
> interesting new packages tend to get picked up in blog posts and Reddit
> threads in the weeks after the packages are published. I currently don't
> have the time to summarize posts beyond quick links, but perhaps someone
> would like to do a monthly round up like the way This Month in Org does?

This is totally understandable, but yes something like "This Month in
Org" would be good reference.

>> Perhaps also a place where people can post ideas for packages
>> This is a conversation.  Would not a mailing list suffice.  What is
>> wrong with help-gnu-emacs?

Nothing is wrong with it, it is just that there are plenty of people who
don't know or don't follow it in detail.

> I sometimes see conversations like that grow out of mailing lists or
> web-based forums like Reddit. Ideas are pretty easy to float, though, and
> it's hard to match them up with a person with the same itch. It seems to
> work out better when people share what they've figured out so far, then
> other people say they want something like that too, and then the code gets
> turned into a package.

>> or where abandoned packages can find new maintainers.
>> How would this relate to https://github.com/emacsattic?

That is for packages that have lost a maintainer, right?  So the package
must have gone on without any maintenance for long enough for someone
reviewing patches and fixing issues like new warnings or the usage of
deprecated functions.  I was thinking about a place where a maintainer
could announce that they don't have the interest or the time to attend
to a package, so that a replacement could been found sooner.

> When there's an announcement, I usually put it in a Help Wanted section at
> the start of Emacs News.

I did not know that you do that, in that case this specific idea is
superfluous.

>> I am very impressed with Eli's leadership of emacs development.
>
> Eli is awesome!

1+

>> More immediately, look at his effort to drive toward better
>> abstraction and unification of the existing find-file and
>> find-sibling-file with Damien Cassou's pending related-files.  This is
>> exactly the sort of effort I would hope to support.  I see such
>> activities as curation.  Thus I could imagine an emacs-curate mailing
>> list.  I would be happy to subscribe.
>
> Andres Ramirez has been sending me links to interesting emacs-devel
> messages for possible inclusion in Emacs News. I'd love to get other
> people's links and notes as well. I read emacs-devel on a very cursory
> level (mostly looking at subjects and what Eli replies :) ), so extra
> context would be great!

I didn't know this either, I will keep this in mind.  If there are
interesting bug reports, would you be interested in my notifying you?

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Sacha Chua]

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On Sun, Oct 16, 2022, 06:15 Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

could announce that they don't have the interest or the time to attend
> to a package, so that a replacement could been found sooner.

> When there's an announcement, I usually put it in a Help Wanted section at
> > the start of Emacs News.
> I did not know that you do that, in that case this specific idea is
> superfluous.
>

It was helpful to discuss it, as people might not know that they can let me
know about such things. :) I use that section for other kinds of requests
for help as well, such as the recent requests for volunteers for noverlay
testing and feedback on Emacs Survey.
https://sachachua.com/blog/2022/10/2022-10-03-emacs-news/ That way, it
doesn't get lost in emacs-devel. Sometimes I notice the posts on my own,
but it also helps when people let me know.

>
> Emacs News. I'd love to get other
> > people's links and notes as well. I read emacs-devel on a very cursory
> > level (mostly looking at subjects and what Eli replies :) ), so extra
> > context would be great!
> I didn't know this either, I will keep this in mind.  If there are
> interesting bug reports, would you be interested in my notifying you?
>

Sure! I tend to not check out individual bug reports as much. All of them
matter a lot to someone, so I'd get tempted to include too many, and then
people might as well watch emacs-devel instead. If interesting
conversations grow out of them, though, such as detailed explanations of
Emacs internals or system limitations, more general requests for feedback,
the context for decisions, or other things we could use more eyes on, then
that might be something that more people might find useful. I'm sure there
are plenty of gems I miss in my quick glance, so a quick email with a link
could help. Sometimes people even cc or bcc me.

Also, since a different conversation brought up automated package
announcements: I use some code that identifies packages recently added to
GNU ELPA, NonGNU ELPA, and MELPA by comparing the archive contents with a
local cache with dates so that I can include packages when they appear.

I also have some code that includes commit summaries for things that touch
etc/NEWS in Emacs and Org, so clear commit messages are helpful. The  I
manually remove lines for some  commits (typo fixes, etc.) and reword
others if the message is not clear.

I pull in things from the Planet Emacslife feed, my Reddit upvotes, my
YouTube playlist for Emacs News (which I populate from a search for emacs,
org mode, or org roam - magit used to be a good keyword until some game
used it too), and the Emacs Calendar. Then I remove duplicates and
irrelevant things, categorize, and reorder. I also check HN, lobste.rs,
lemmy, emacs-devel, and occasionally help-gnu-emacs.

The code I use is near the bottom of the index.org in
https://github.com/sachac/emacs-news . Improvements welcome!

Sacha

>

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Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Emanuel Berg]

Sacha Chua wrote:

> It was helpful to discuss it, as people might not know that
> they can let me know about such things. :)

Maybe

(1) Invite people to send stuff to you, as the editor, you are
    still free to include or exclude whatever you want of
    course, but it cannot hurt to say so explicitely.

(2) If the OP is serious about his suggestion, maybe he can
    have a section in Emacs News, if so, you will just have to
    agree on the FORM, after that both can go about your own
    individual businesses ...

?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Eduardo Ochs]

I'm interested!
I want to help, but I am a weirdo who uses weird tools...
I'll have to learn the, aham, "normal" tools to be able to help.
What do you think about brainstorming by IRC?
  Cheers,
     Eduardo Ochs
     http://angg.twu.net/#eev

On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 at 07:16, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
>
> Sacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com> writes:
>
> >> but also commented on and "reviewed".  This seems to suggest a review
> >> site.  (A quick web search suggests that there are frameworks out
> >> there to facilitate creating such sites.)  That said, posting
> >> opinions seems of low value and rarely actionable (see below).
> >
> > Prot does a great job of writing blog posts and often making videos about
> > his new packages, which are usually posted to GNU ELPA. I link to these in
> > Emacs News, and they'll probably come up in searches as well. I notice that
> > interesting new packages tend to get picked up in blog posts and Reddit
> > threads in the weeks after the packages are published. I currently don't
> > have the time to summarize posts beyond quick links, but perhaps someone
> > would like to do a monthly round up like the way This Month in Org does?
>
> This is totally understandable, but yes something like "This Month in
> Org" would be good reference.
>
> >> Perhaps also a place where people can post ideas for packages
> >> This is a conversation.  Would not a mailing list suffice.  What is
> >> wrong with help-gnu-emacs?
>
> Nothing is wrong with it, it is just that there are plenty of people who
> don't know or don't follow it in detail.
>
> > I sometimes see conversations like that grow out of mailing lists or
> > web-based forums like Reddit. Ideas are pretty easy to float, though, and
> > it's hard to match them up with a person with the same itch. It seems to
> > work out better when people share what they've figured out so far, then
> > other people say they want something like that too, and then the code gets
> > turned into a package.
>
> >> or where abandoned packages can find new maintainers.
> >> How would this relate to https://github.com/emacsattic?
>
> That is for packages that have lost a maintainer, right?  So the package
> must have gone on without any maintenance for long enough for someone
> reviewing patches and fixing issues like new warnings or the usage of
> deprecated functions.  I was thinking about a place where a maintainer
> could announce that they don't have the interest or the time to attend
> to a package, so that a replacement could been found sooner.
>
> > When there's an announcement, I usually put it in a Help Wanted section at
> > the start of Emacs News.
>
> I did not know that you do that, in that case this specific idea is
> superfluous.
>
> >> I am very impressed with Eli's leadership of emacs development.
> >
> > Eli is awesome!
>
> 1+
>
> >> More immediately, look at his effort to drive toward better
> >> abstraction and unification of the existing find-file and
> >> find-sibling-file with Damien Cassou's pending related-files.  This is
> >> exactly the sort of effort I would hope to support.  I see such
> >> activities as curation.  Thus I could imagine an emacs-curate mailing
> >> list.  I would be happy to subscribe.
> >
> > Andres Ramirez has been sending me links to interesting emacs-devel
> > messages for possible inclusion in Emacs News. I'd love to get other
> > people's links and notes as well. I read emacs-devel on a very cursory
> > level (mostly looking at subjects and what Eli replies :) ), so extra
> > context would be great!
>
> I didn't know this either, I will keep this in mind.  If there are
> interesting bug reports, would you be interested in my notifying you?
>

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Jean Louis]

On October 16, 2022 2:12:19 PM UTC, Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm interested!
>I want to help, but I am a weirdo who uses weird tools...
>I'll have to learn the, aham, "normal" tools to be able to help.

You develop advanced tools. Even one person helped and it may give significant results. No, please don't use those terms.

You are inovator. Innovators stay within common limits, that is the point of advancement of any subject, to jump out of the common environment and think up something beneficial.

On my side I am currently using tabulated mode to display and edit database entries.

I can as well make Org view, or eev view or Hyperbole buttons and mode to edit, view, search for database entries. 

Your tool is this valuable, let us build on it.

I expect people who like to deal with eev to get support in my software for eev, those using Hyperbole too, Org guys too, Asciidoctor, etc.

That is Emacs environment, every package may connect and use other packages. 

I find eev one of fastest methods to browse the database entries, though I did not develop enough. It will come by demand.


Jean

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Emanuel Berg]

Jean Louis wrote:

>> I'm interested! I want to help, but I am a weirdo who uses
>> weird tools... I'll have to learn the, aham, "normal" tools
>> to be able to help.
>
> You develop advanced tools. Even one person helped and it
> may give significant results. No, please don't use
> those terms.
>
> You are inovator. Innovators stay within common limits, that
> is the point of advancement of any subject, to jump out of
> the common environment and think up something beneficial.
>
> On my side I am currently using tabulated mode to display
> and edit database entries.
>
> I can as well make Org view, or eev view or Hyperbole
> buttons and mode to edit, view, search for database entries.
>
> Your tool is this valuable, let us build on it.
>
> I expect people who like to deal with eev to get support in
> my software for eev, those using Hyperbole too, Org guys
> too, Asciidoctor, etc.
>
> That is Emacs environment, every package may connect and use
> other packages.
>
> I find eev one of fastest methods to browse the database
> entries, though I did not develop enough. It will come
> by demand.

In so many words, yes of course :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

Eduardo Ochs <eduardoochs@gmail.com> writes:

> I'm interested!
> I want to help, but I am a weirdo who uses weird tools...
> I'll have to learn the, aham, "normal" tools to be able to help.

^^ Who ever said anything about normal tools?  At this stage we are free
to use whatever is the most appropriate.

> What do you think about brainstorming by IRC?

Sure, send me a message: pkal on libera.chat

>   Cheers,
>      Eduardo Ochs
>      http://angg.twu.net/#eev

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Emanuel Berg]

John Yates wrote:

> Announcements have limited shelf life. They should be
> handled via some form of notification mechanism. Perhaps an
> ELPA section in Sacha's Emacs News would suffice.

They are already/still automated such announcements appearing
on gmane.emacs.sources (gnu.emacs.sources) I think, and
something to that extent, automated or not I don't know
actually because I never bothered to read those posts, but
they do appear on gmane.emacs.devel when there are new
packages in ELPA ...

So maybe that can be examined and hooked to Emacs News?

Even so, "zine" or "newsletter" are not the right words
perhaps ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2022-10-14, at 23:13, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n zine
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA
> would be a nice idea.  Somewhere where new packages and releases can not
> only be announced but also commented on and "reviewed".  Perhaps also a
> place where people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
> packages can find new maintainers.  Basically anything on the topic of
> Emacs packages, in one package.
>
> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
> know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
> things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
> initiate something more concrete?

I certainly don't have time to help with that - sorry - but I like the
idea.  Perhaps someone could work with Sacha (who I'm CC'ing now) and
expand the corresponding section of her Emacs News?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> I certainly don't have time to help with that - sorry - but
> I like the idea. Perhaps someone could work with Sacha (who
> I'm CC'ing now) and expand the corresponding section of her
> Emacs News?

Shouldn't there be stuff to read as well you think?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
> know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
> things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
> initiate something more concrete?

I think it sounds like a good idea.

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n zine
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA
> would be a nice idea.  Somewhere where new packages and releases can not
> only be announced but also commented on and "reviewed".  Perhaps also a
> place where people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
> packages can find new maintainers.  Basically anything on the topic of
> Emacs packages, in one package.
>
> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
> know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
> things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
> initiate something more concrete?

I'd like to bring this topic up again.  The first step would be to set
bounds and some time schedule.  The technical decisions should follow
from this.  My suggestion would be to publish a little article on either
a 1/2, 1 or 2-monthly basis*, with three regular sections:

* New packages

  Mentioning and introducing new packages that have been added to GNU
  and NonGNU ELPA.

* Interesting Updates

  Briefly listing packages that have some major changes that would make
  it worth taking a look at a package again.

* Misc. Section

  Other irregular points like people suggesting package ideas,
  co-maintainers needed for packages, news from Emacs/ELPA maintainers
  or anything else like that.

I'd like to create a group on Sourcehut to manage the site and provide a
separate mailing list.  Ping me if interested.

*: Perhaps it doesn't have to be periodic, and we would instead just
   release a new edition whenever we have enough to post?

-- 
Philip Kaludercic

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[orzodk]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n zine
>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA
>> would be a nice idea.  Somewhere where new packages and releases can not
>> only be announced but also commented on and "reviewed".  Perhaps also a
>> place where people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
>> packages can find new maintainers.  Basically anything on the topic of
>> Emacs packages, in one package.
>>
>> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
>> know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
>> things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
>> initiate something more concrete?
>
> I'd like to bring this topic up again.  The first step would be to set
> bounds and some time schedule.  The technical decisions should follow
> from this.  My suggestion would be to publish a little article on either
> a 1/2, 1 or 2-monthly basis*, with three regular sections:
>
> * New packages
>
>   Mentioning and introducing new packages that have been added to GNU
>   and NonGNU ELPA.
>
> * Interesting Updates
>
>   Briefly listing packages that have some major changes that would make
>   it worth taking a look at a package again.
>
> * Misc. Section
>
>   Other irregular points like people suggesting package ideas,
>   co-maintainers needed for packages, news from Emacs/ELPA maintainers
>   or anything else like that.
>
> I'd like to create a group on Sourcehut to manage the site and provide a
> separate mailing list.  Ping me if interested.
>
> *: Perhaps it doesn't have to be periodic, and we would instead just
>    release a new edition whenever we have enough to post?

As far as scope goes I think it wouldn't be too hard scrape the
Gnu/NonGnu package pages then compare what's changed since the last
newsletter. There was even a blog post about scraping with org-mode[1] a
few days ago (via irreal). (The frequency of the newsletter seems best
based on how often interesting changes land in these packages.)

So I think what you're asking is if there is interest in the
review/commentary aspect of the newsletter? I'd be interested in
following along on SourceHut (as I'm sure other fellow lurkers would be)
but I can't say that I have any great insight to contribute. If it's
just helping groking the CHANGELOG since the last version that's
something I'm more capable of.

As another note: Emanuel mentioned an Emacs newsletter would be an
interseting idea as well but scope was a concern[2]. As a way to boot
strap this whole process it might be worth while approaching some of the
bloggers in the community to see if they'd be interested in writing
"guest posts" or even giving you permission to "cross post" some of
their older articles.

Then issue #1 has the notes about ELPA packages plus an Emacs related
article with links to SourceHut for those interested in
contributing. This gets published and cross posted to
reddit/planetemacs/sacha's newsletter/etc and you're off into the world
of community building.  

[1] https://blog.nawaz.org/posts/2023/Mar/solving-a-scraping-problem-with-emacs-and-org-mode/
[2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-tangents/2022-10/msg00007.html

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

orzodk <orzodk@fastmail.com> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>>
>>> I have recently been thinking if creating a little monthly±n zine
>>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zine) or newsletter for {GNU,NonGNU} ELPA
>>> would be a nice idea.  Somewhere where new packages and releases can not
>>> only be announced but also commented on and "reviewed".  Perhaps also a
>>> place where people can post ideas for packages or where abandoned
>>> packages can find new maintainers.  Basically anything on the topic of
>>> Emacs packages, in one package.
>>>
>>> Starting and organising such a project doesn't sound easy, and I don't
>>> know if it is worth it to begin with.  I am wondering if anyone else
>>> things this is a good idea and would be interested in participating to
>>> initiate something more concrete?
>>
>> I'd like to bring this topic up again.  The first step would be to set
>> bounds and some time schedule.  The technical decisions should follow
>> from this.  My suggestion would be to publish a little article on either
>> a 1/2, 1 or 2-monthly basis*, with three regular sections:
>>
>> * New packages
>>
>>   Mentioning and introducing new packages that have been added to GNU
>>   and NonGNU ELPA.
>>
>> * Interesting Updates
>>
>>   Briefly listing packages that have some major changes that would make
>>   it worth taking a look at a package again.
>>
>> * Misc. Section
>>
>>   Other irregular points like people suggesting package ideas,
>>   co-maintainers needed for packages, news from Emacs/ELPA maintainers
>>   or anything else like that.
>>
>> I'd like to create a group on Sourcehut to manage the site and provide a
>> separate mailing list.  Ping me if interested.
>>
>> *: Perhaps it doesn't have to be periodic, and we would instead just
>>    release a new edition whenever we have enough to post?
>
> As far as scope goes I think it wouldn't be too hard scrape the
> Gnu/NonGnu package pages then compare what's changed since the last
> newsletter. There was even a blog post about scraping with org-mode[1] a
> few days ago (via irreal). (The frequency of the newsletter seems best
> based on how often interesting changes land in these packages.)

There wouldn't be any need to take that route, all the new packages are
documented in their respective repositories:

https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/nongnu.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New

> So I think what you're asking is if there is interest in the
> review/commentary aspect of the newsletter? I'd be interested in
> following along on SourceHut (as I'm sure other fellow lurkers would be)
> but I can't say that I have any great insight to contribute. If it's
> just helping groking the CHANGELOG since the last version that's
> something I'm more capable of.

I don't think there are going to be great insights going on here.  My
plan would be to start a mailing list that contributors could sign up
onto, where new packages would be announced, and people could respond
with their comments, however brief or detailed, perhaps even in whatever
format (org, markdown, blog posts, video, etc.).  These would then be
collected into a article.

> As another note: Emanuel mentioned an Emacs newsletter would be an
> interseting idea as well but scope was a concern[2]. As a way to boot
> strap this whole process it might be worth while approaching some of the
> bloggers in the community to see if they'd be interested in writing
> "guest posts" or even giving you permission to "cross post" some of
> their older articles.

Hmm, do you have any concrete people in mind?

> Then issue #1 has the notes about ELPA packages plus an Emacs related
> article with links to SourceHut for those interested in
> contributing. This gets published and cross posted to
> reddit/planetemacs/sacha's newsletter/etc and you're off into the world
> of community building.  
>
> [1] https://blog.nawaz.org/posts/2023/Mar/solving-a-scraping-problem-with-emacs-and-org-mode/
> [2] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-tangents/2022-10/msg00007.html

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[orzodk]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> orzodk <orzodk@fastmail.com> writes:
>
>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>>
>>
>> As far as scope goes I think it wouldn't be too hard scrape the
>> Gnu/NonGnu package pages then compare what's changed since the last
>> newsletter. There was even a blog post about scraping with org-mode[1] a
>> few days ago (via irreal). (The frequency of the newsletter seems best
>> based on how often interesting changes land in these packages.)
>
> There wouldn't be any need to take that route, all the new packages are
> documented in their respective repositories:
>
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New
> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/nongnu.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New
>
>> So I think what you're asking is if there is interest in the
>> review/commentary aspect of the newsletter? I'd be interested in
>> following along on SourceHut (as I'm sure other fellow lurkers would be)
>> but I can't say that I have any great insight to contribute. If it's
>> just helping groking the CHANGELOG since the last version that's
>> something I'm more capable of.
>
> I don't think there are going to be great insights going on here.  My
> plan would be to start a mailing list that contributors could sign up
> onto, where new packages would be announced, and people could respond
> with their comments, however brief or detailed, perhaps even in whatever
> format (org, markdown, blog posts, video, etc.).  These would then be
> collected into a article.

Ah, understood.

>> As another note: Emanuel mentioned an Emacs newsletter would be an
>> interseting idea as well but scope was a concern[2]. As a way to boot
>> strap this whole process it might be worth while approaching some of the
>> bloggers in the community to see if they'd be interested in writing
>> "guest posts" or even giving you permission to "cross post" some of
>> their older articles.
>
> Hmm, do you have any concrete people in mind?

I don't know either of these people but I enjoy Mickey Peterson's
Mastering Emacs (https://www.masteringemacs.org/all-articles) and Vernon
Grant's Discovering Emacs podcast.
(https://github.com/VernonGrant/discovering-emacs/tree/main/show-notes) 

Re: A Zine/Newsletter for ELPA

[Philip Kaludercic]

orzodk <orzodk@fastmail.com> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> orzodk <orzodk@fastmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>>>
>>> As far as scope goes I think it wouldn't be too hard scrape the
>>> Gnu/NonGnu package pages then compare what's changed since the last
>>> newsletter. There was even a blog post about scraping with org-mode[1] a
>>> few days ago (via irreal). (The frequency of the newsletter seems best
>>> based on how often interesting changes land in these packages.)
>>
>> There wouldn't be any need to take that route, all the new packages are
>> documented in their respective repositories:
>>
>> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/elpa.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New
>> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/nongnu.git/log/?qt=grep&q=New
>>
>>> So I think what you're asking is if there is interest in the
>>> review/commentary aspect of the newsletter? I'd be interested in
>>> following along on SourceHut (as I'm sure other fellow lurkers would be)
>>> but I can't say that I have any great insight to contribute. If it's
>>> just helping groking the CHANGELOG since the last version that's
>>> something I'm more capable of.
>>
>> I don't think there are going to be great insights going on here.  My
>> plan would be to start a mailing list that contributors could sign up
>> onto, where new packages would be announced, and people could respond
>> with their comments, however brief or detailed, perhaps even in whatever
>> format (org, markdown, blog posts, video, etc.).  These would then be
>> collected into a article.
>
> Ah, understood.

I have created a mailing list here: https://lists.sr.ht/~pkal/elpa-zine
(~pkal/elpa-zine@lists.sr.ht) for anyone interested.

>>> As another note: Emanuel mentioned an Emacs newsletter would be an
>>> interseting idea as well but scope was a concern[2]. As a way to boot
>>> strap this whole process it might be worth while approaching some of the
>>> bloggers in the community to see if they'd be interested in writing
>>> "guest posts" or even giving you permission to "cross post" some of
>>> their older articles.
>>
>> Hmm, do you have any concrete people in mind?
>
> I don't know either of these people but I enjoy Mickey Peterson's
> Mastering Emacs (https://www.masteringemacs.org/all-articles) and Vernon
> Grant's Discovering Emacs podcast.
> (https://github.com/VernonGrant/discovering-emacs/tree/main/show-notes) 

Hmm, I don't know if that would help reach a wider audience than just
going through planet emacslife would to begin with.  But it is something
that can be kept in mind.

-- 
Philip Kaludercic