From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: floyd@barrow.com (Floyd L. Davidson) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 04:06:33 -0900 Organization: __________ Message-ID: <87k6o24gbq.fld@barrow.com> References: <874qf8d3cy.fsf@thalassa.informatimago.com> <86acoyk054.fsf@pallotta.studby.uio.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1111325551 1941 80.91.229.2 (20 Mar 2005 13:32:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 13:32:31 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 20 14:32:30 2005 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DD0Xa-0006EA-O5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:32:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DD0oU-00065g-Hp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2005 08:49:54 -0500 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-08!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: gnus 5.10.6/XEmacs 21.4.15/Linux 2.6.5 Cancel-Lock: sha1:jy40nj9hGgRvlQlOjCeJAxEfk/I= Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Original-Lines: 54 Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:129478 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org X-MailScanner-To: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:25033 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:25033 steinab@ifi.uio.no (Steinar Børmer) wrote: >David Kastrup wrote: > >| People that don't want to deal with complexity will remain only >| marginally longer with Emacs before abandoning it if Emacs gets dumbed >| down. > >I think you're right. The willingness to learn a complicated tool, and >the knowledge of the benefits to be had, are what determines the outcome >in the end, not how similar the key bindings are to $PREVIOUS_EDITOR. I think too that people who have that sort of mind set will recognize that characteristic of Emacs very quickly, and realize they have indeed found the right editor, even though at the time they make that decision they might be barely functional with it. On the other hand, making the default some false front that supposedly provide easy passage from some other editor would serve little purpose other than to hide the real nature of Emacs from those who actually will be comfortable with it and become long term users. >| If we can improve the first month of a newby without souring the last >| decade of a seasoned user, we will by all means do so. > >XEmacs has a newbie-friendly startup help system, where it cycles >through a couple of concise, helpful tips pages upon startup. GNU Emacs >has this too, but it's shorter and covers fewer of the commands that are >likely to be sought by new users. > >Especially helpful to completely clueless users is the page where XEmacs >says: > > _Useful stuff_ : > > Things that you should learn rather quickly... > > C-x C-f: visit a file > C-x C-s: save changes > C-u: undo changes > C-x C-c: exit XEmacs > >Above this is a line saying: > > `C-' means the control key, `M-' means the meta key > >I suggest adding something similiar to GNU Emacs. > >-- >SB -- Floyd L. Davidson Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com