all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: floyd@barrow.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
Subject: Re: Making Emacs more newbie friendly
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 04:06:33 -0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87k6o24gbq.fld@barrow.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 86acoyk054.fsf@pallotta.studby.uio.no

steinab@ifi.uio.no (Steinar Børmer) wrote:
>David Kastrup wrote:
>
>| People that don't want to deal with complexity will remain only
>| marginally longer with Emacs before abandoning it if Emacs gets dumbed
>| down.
>
>I think you're right.  The willingness to learn a complicated tool, and
>the knowledge of the benefits to be had, are what determines the outcome
>in the end, not how similar the key bindings are to $PREVIOUS_EDITOR.

I think too that people who have that sort of mind set will
recognize that characteristic of Emacs very quickly, and realize
they have indeed found the right editor, even though at the time
they make that decision they might be barely functional with it.

On the other hand, making the default some false front that
supposedly provide easy passage from some other editor would
serve little purpose other than to hide the real nature of Emacs
from those who actually will be comfortable with it and become
long term users.

>| If we can improve the first month of a newby without souring the last
>| decade of a seasoned user, we will by all means do so.
>
>XEmacs has a newbie-friendly startup help system, where it cycles
>through a couple of concise, helpful tips pages upon startup.  GNU Emacs
>has this too, but it's shorter and covers fewer of the commands that are
>likely to be sought by new users.
>
>Especially helpful to completely clueless users is the page where XEmacs
>says:
>
>        _Useful stuff_ :
>
>        Things that you should learn rather quickly...
>
>        C-x C-f: visit a file
>        C-x C-s: save changes
>        C-u: undo changes
>        C-x C-c: exit XEmacs
>
>Above this is a line saying:
>
>        `C-' means the control key, `M-' means the meta key
>
>I suggest adding something similiar to GNU Emacs.
>
>--
>SB

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson           <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                         floyd@barrow.com

  reply	other threads:[~2005-03-20 13:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 123+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-03-18 21:12 Making Emacs more newbie friendly PT
2005-03-18 21:57 ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-19  5:40   ` PT
2005-03-19  7:57     ` rgb
2005-03-19  9:51       ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:46         ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 11:01           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20  0:42             ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-19 20:16         ` Miles Bader
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4427.1111265353.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 20:53           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 10:56       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <mailman.4380.1111231068.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 14:23         ` PT
2005-03-19 15:08           ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:45           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 10:47     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 14:34       ` nfreimann
2005-03-19 15:49         ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 16:13           ` nfreimann
     [not found]           ` <mailman.4406.1111250911.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 19:12             ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:35               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 21:00                 ` Miles Bader
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4435.1111267700.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 22:42                   ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 15:50         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 12:42     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 14:56       ` PT
2005-03-19 15:37         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:45         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-19 18:07           ` PT
2005-03-19 18:15             ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 18:24               ` PT
2005-03-19 18:34                 ` David Kastrup
2005-04-09 18:01         ` Nathan Hess
     [not found]     ` <mailman.4378.1111230698.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 13:41       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:31         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:04           ` Lee Sau Dan
2005-03-20 12:33             ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:33               ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-21  7:39                 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 10:07                   ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-21 11:27                   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2005-03-22 11:25                     ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 11:54                   ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 12:37                   ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:27           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 12:47             ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-21 18:30               ` Drew Adams
2005-03-19 15:37         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 17:09         ` Stefan Monnier
2005-03-20 12:42           ` Brian Elmegaard
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4399.1111247782.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 12:39           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 20:27             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]             ` <mailman.4504.1111351877.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 21:05               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21  8:11               ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21 19:56                 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4626.1111436194.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-22 11:33                   ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 14:52       ` PT
2005-03-19 15:14         ` David Hansen
2005-03-19 15:33         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:00           ` PT
2005-03-19 16:22             ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 16:57               ` PT
2005-03-19 17:16                 ` David Kastrup
2005-03-19 17:55                   ` PT
2005-03-19 18:03                     ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 12:52                       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:44                         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20 21:49                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-22 11:46                             ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-22 13:09                               ` David Kastrup
2005-03-23  7:29                                 ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-21  8:17                           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:01                   ` PT
2005-03-19 20:45                     ` Miles Bader
2005-03-20 17:43                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 18:05                 ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 18:15                   ` PT
2005-03-20 17:51                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2005-03-19 17:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 23:16             ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 11:49           ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 13:06             ` Floyd L. Davidson [this message]
2005-03-19 16:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-19 18:16         ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 23:34           ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20  0:45           ` David Kastrup
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4404.1111249572.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 11:51           ` Steinar Børmer
2005-03-20 16:31         ` ken
     [not found]         ` <mailman.4485.1111338015.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 23:35           ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-21  4:44             ` Sean Richards
2005-03-21 11:00               ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22 20:33                 ` Sean Richards
2005-03-19 15:45     ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-19 15:54       ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-19 17:25       ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]       ` <mailman.4413.1111254615.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-19 23:33         ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20  4:37           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-03-20  9:07             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2005-03-20 11:30               ` nfreimann
2005-03-20 12:16                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                 ` <mailman.4474.1111322832.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 18:04                   ` Joe Bush
2005-03-21  8:23                     ` Brian Elmegaard
     [not found]               ` <mailman.4470.1111319220.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 13:01                 ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-20 17:37                 ` David Kastrup
     [not found]           ` <mailman.4443.1111294657.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 15:29             ` Pascal Bourguignon
2005-03-20 15:58               ` Joe Corneli
     [not found]               ` <mailman.4479.1111335526.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-20 20:33                 ` Jochen Küpper
2005-03-20 23:50                   ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-20 12:59       ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-20 17:45         ` David Kastrup
2005-03-21  8:19           ` Brian Elmegaard
2005-03-19 18:42     ` Shawn Betts
2005-03-19 19:27       ` David Kastrup
2005-03-20  6:55       ` Joe Corneli
2005-03-18 22:11 ` Peter Dyballa
2005-03-19 17:17 ` Jason Rumney
2005-03-19 18:10   ` Floyd L. Davidson
2005-03-22  1:59     ` Cristian Gutierrez
2005-03-21  9:56 ` Mathias Dahl
2005-03-21 19:23 ` Peter K. Lee
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-03-21 12:53 nfreimann
2005-03-21 15:22 ` Joe Corneli
     [not found] <mailman.4566.1111411378.32256.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2005-03-21 13:21 ` Klaus Straubinger
2005-03-21 21:44 ` Miles Bader

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87k6o24gbq.fld@barrow.com \
    --to=floyd@barrow.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.