From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dVCS vs. CVS Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:45:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87k5mlgsqg.fsf@member.fsf.org> References: <87y7b36ojw.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87prwd7j8l.GNU's_Not_Unix!%yavor@gnu.org> <87wsqlhbcp.fsf@member.fsf.org> <20080107210041.GA1392@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199745942 25820 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2008 22:45:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 22:45:42 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 07 23:46:02 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JC0jI-0007nT-8o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:46:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JC0iv-00013s-AL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JC0ip-0000ye-Vh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:32 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JC0ip-0000xO-DM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JC0ip-0000xD-4E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:31 -0500 Original-Received: from out5.smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JC0io-0002Bj-Lo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:30 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.internal [10.202.2.41]) by out1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65675833BC for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:45:30 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from heartbeat2.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 07 Jan 2008 17:45:30 -0500 X-Sasl-enc: grH417uyRQzlKo9rIMWGymkQs2MSvTI/qrzqvvB4RdN5 1199745929 Original-Received: from baldur (dslb-084-063-053-065.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.63.53.65]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7F82CF2E for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:45:29 -0500 (EST) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <20080107210041.GA1392@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 7 Jan 2008 21:00:41 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:86528 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: Hi Alan, >> So basically the only difference is that you have to commit to your >> local repository. As long as you don't use more advanced functions >> of the dVCS, there's nothing more complicated. > > Sorry, but no. What makes it complicated are all the other things > that you don't want to use. The things that are there, but you are > forced to ignore. You can shoot yourself in the foot with CVS, too. But it's easy to give non-programmers a recipe how they can work with a dVCS as well as it is possible with CVS now. > It's a bit like saying Emacs is simple, because you can use it "just > like" a very basic text editor. But it's not much different than with CVS today. You can do much more with it than only the usual up, edit, ci/diff cycle. > Also, a dVCS's documentation is more complicated. Unless, of course, > its writers write a special cut down version for "unsophisticated" > users - Something they're hardly likely to, since they will want to > encourage people to use it "properly". At least git has a short "Everyday git" tutorial that explains the few commands each role may use. If the dVCS we choose has no such documentation, it won't be hard to write one ourselves. >> > Autoconf, Automake, m4, Gnulib and other projects switched to Git >> > some time ago. One would expect that there will be an avalanche of >> > new contributors who were not volunteering only because they needed >> > a modern VCS to go ahead. > >> I guess that's not a good comparison, because those are pretty boring >> projects for most people. > > So's Emacs. ;-) Haha. But generally I'd say end-user applications attract more voluntary programmers than libs and build tools. >> Another project that switched from CVS to git recently is stumpwm, >> and this project now has a hundfull of contributors now instead of >> only one. > > I can't honestly imagine that the VCS system in use is that critical a > factor in attracting most new contributors. Surely, it's not critical, but it's convenient. Not only for new contributors, but for every programmer. Take me as an example. I have some items on my todo list, but since my time is quite limited, I don't even start to implement them, since when I do so I cannot commit till it's finished. With a dVCS I would create a new local branch for a task and work on it when I want. I could switch back to the main branch to fix a bug or make a quick change whenever I want. (Sure, I can checkout emacs many times to simulate multiple local branches, but that has other drawbacks.) Bye, Tassilo