From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Manoj Srivastava Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs vista build failures Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:04:23 -0500 Organization: Manoj Srivastava's Home Message-ID: <87k5fliizc.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> References: <4eb0089f0807111217m66d6cf4el777c197c107ce034@mail.gmail.com> <87skug6tq5.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4eb0089f0807111345h13eccdds9b2cf43370b94074@mail.gmail.com> <4eb0089f0807121340x5e26f6dbve03ef50b238f3a3a@mail.gmail.com> <87k5fph5rh.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <20080713214648.GB1076@muc.de> <487A783B.7060603@gmail.com> <20080713232635.GD1076@muc.de> <85od51id2t.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20080714204242.GH6711@volo.donarmstrong.com> <85k5foch2r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87ej5tkia0.fsf@anzu.internal.golden-gryphon.com> <86r69tonz0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1216245953 30980 80.91.229.12 (16 Jul 2008 22:05:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:05:53 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 17 00:06:41 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KJF8R-0000L4-Vd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:06:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40805 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KJF7Z-0001gt-8p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:05:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KJF7T-0001fO-Jw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:05:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KJF7S-0001eb-LA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:05:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=35584 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KJF7S-0001eT-Hd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2]:58812 helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KJF7R-0007RP-JG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:05:06 -0400 Original-Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1KJF7O-0007JW-Lo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: from tiamat.golden-gryphon.com ([204.117.95.118]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: from srivasta by tiamat.golden-gryphon.com with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:05:02 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 96 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: tiamat.golden-gryphon.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACYAAAAwCAMAAABKbPgaAAAAM1BMVEUAAADIjH/0rp1KPz79 0b+ic2nlpJc2Ly2AY17VlYb4uqi2gHQXFBN2WVXgno5iT02Xa2Nx+jaIAAACVElEQVQ4jeWU23bj IAxFLUAggQX6/6+dI9LGTpo+9mlYiXNhc3TnOP50naZE0tqvgEk+soutnNfQ8yPTWMTENhNrjI+Y +N7POVt8tAzpn2vJlsmttbyfrdkP7hx5iezteGzsbOts7xT+tC1mcG+LtRP2X/16bEQExuyx1uZW vscrAWUT8aE0aDBeBuw8nS5u4WgWyDCllOZUBeyWgbWbGrBsTDpTx0qpphlcYPcgJLvBXFClPMg5 6WH2JidLIAaDF5aAed7uPTH4bjw0bZvfajp2tHc1F+cBm+Vr9YomGSwNhbmcczYEWUu5MBpYvCLV F+ZIKwQfYB+CBXnIRQFvIRhK6l96PemsFLEPFxi+MPxiTYH0Ave1InPsIYes3NJb42ytBSmmysyj lIQYHJm6Im1WbQ0kWMesKFRFPKTDzJ3GhWUn2KWKEkWlKthoACLm2eWJQQh2qKbAUgQxa+8TVjn1 aySm8656ookCfCc5TRzvnZ6YOu3NpHg+uR5YuRkNF/b5IHq5Y7Ve6c2+sR4hqIZ3+5DCt3ukh8Eo vFIXVJxqfMdbkd/BF3YaQkB/2RIUHPMS7RLVAHefrYzWZVQ/ei4peBsROFLi90ltQyvF5I05t4Zs L4C9DODJ2AZCUf8UitGjCIdfx15QQkfZibTOGT3edxns5fY6F2rstKcTwiiaJnQwvYkdzTlaTqNH IkSmGdLrON45tGsMNDoSYr4bxH5emHEFaoFjKBahHXFXfLx9cR9p6ejJXihuxPz57gWHZkWovbPl 9gsU8eImtBi++3D+f+sfT/Mg79fyEz8AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-URL: http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ Mail-Copies-To: never X-Face: #q.#]5@vq!Jz+E0t_/; Y^gTjR\T^"B'fbeuVGiyKrvbfKJl!^e|e:iu(kJ6c|QYB57LP*|t &YlP~HF/=h:GA6o6W@I#deQL-%#.6]!z:6Cj0kd#4]>*D, |0djf'CVlXkI, >aV4\}?d_KEqsN{Nnt7 78"OsbQ["56/!nisvyB/uA5Q.{)gm6?q.j71ww.>b9b]-sG8zNt%KkIa>xWg&1VcjZk[hBQ>]j~`Wq Xl,y1a!(>6`UM{~'X[Y_,Bv+}=L\SS*mA8=s;!=O`ja|@PEzb&i0}Qp,`Z\:6:OmRi* Cancel-Lock: sha1:2gTUZq/YtjHX5w9G1mgoTow6mkQ= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:100845 Archived-At: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:20:03 +0200, David Kastrup said: > Yes, we are all stupid. But since the intelligent ones are rare, it > might be worth adapting the policies to deal with the real world. The most common target user does not care to override Emacs packages for one of their own. And these are the users that Debian caters to well. But please don't construe that to mean that Debian does not cater to Developers, we try to. >>> As one consequence, the diagnostic tool M-x list-load-path-shadows >>> RET pretty much goes crazy on Debian. >> >> It is: >> A. /usr/share/ hiding /usr/share/emacs >> B. /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/ hiding >> /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/ >> >> Frankly, I don't call that going "pretty much crazy". but it does >> make a nice sound bite in a flamewar. > Install a few add-on Elisp packages from Debian, then try again. I have. I have quite a few installed, and still, the two directory shadows cover everything on my machine. (cedet, gnus, vm, ...) >>> The only sane way out is to compile and manage your own Emacs and >>> packages. And that's what _all_ Emacs and XEmacs developers I know >>> who are not simultaneously Debian maintainers do. >> >> I think this is not the case, since a trivial work around is >> available (add your dir to the head of the path). > First you would have to find a file which actually gets loaded instead > of bypassed be the Debian scheme. My .emacs has never been bypassed. That is where I add my directories to the loadpath. > Feel free to conduct a survey if you don't believe me. I am not > interested in being proven stupid and incapable. I am perfectly > willing to accept that evaluation. But I know that I am not alone, > and at some point of time Debian should face reality and figure out > how to make use of all the stupid and incapable people who are > seemingly able to get work done elsewhere. Hmm. I just added org-mode to /usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/org-mode, and boom, it overrides the org-mode built into my emacs-snapshot package. I did absolutely nothing to my Debian setup to make that happen. Also, anything dumped into my personal lisp directorieas also seems to take precedence, and this is the code I use to add them (in my .emacs): --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- (defvar manoj-lisp-subdirs (list "config" "functions" "bbdb" "lisp" "mail" "modes" "x-support" "debian" "news" (format "emacs%d/gnus" (emacs-major-version)) (format "emacs%d/w3" (emacs-major-version)) ) "*The list of subdirtectories we want in the path.") ;;; Add the subdirs to the load path (let ((subdirs (mapcar (function (lambda (x) (expand-file-name (concat my-emacs-config-dir "/" x)))) manoj-lisp-subdirs))) (while subdirs (let ((subdir (car subdirs))) (if (not (member subdir load-path)) (setq load-path (cons subdir load-path)))) (setq subdirs (cdr subdirs)))) --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- So, really, unless I can reproduce the problem you claim to have, I can't file bug reports, not can I figure out a scheme to fix them. From where I sit, at least my bog standard Debian unstable distribution does not get in my way when trying to maintain my emacs lisp packages. I am sorry your mileage has varied. manoj -- Biz is better. Manoj Srivastava 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C