From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3022: 23.0.92; triangle images in Customize buffers are just plain bad Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:50:37 +0200 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87k4y5o9r6.fsf@mail.jurta.org> References: <877hub38qf.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83CEEFF8DC7149C1A89D91B6DD5BF312@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Juri Linkov , 3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257475670 15751 80.91.229.12 (6 Nov 2009 02:47:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 02:47:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, 'Chong Yidong' To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 06 03:47:42 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N6ErW-0007j6-11 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:47:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34764 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6ErV-0007Dm-IA for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6ErF-00077T-0l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:25 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6ErA-000735-Ak for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45104 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6ErA-00072s-1N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:20 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:42109) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N6Er9-0005rM-Dn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:19 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nA62lGeD018636; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:47:17 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Submit) id nA62Z6CG016870; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:35:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:35:06 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Juri Linkov Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs 2Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:35:06 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 3022 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 3022-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B3022.125747447816007 (code B ref 3022); Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:35:06 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3022) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Nov 2009 02:27:58 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. Original-Received: from mx2.starman.ee (smtp-out2.starman.ee [85.253.0.4]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-5) with ESMTP id nA62Ru9A016000 for <3022@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:27:57 -0800 X-Virus-Scanned: by Amavisd-New at mx2.starman.ee Original-Received: from mail.starman.ee (62.65.208.152.cable.starman.ee [62.65.208.152]) by mx2.starman.ee (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4433F4315; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 04:27:50 +0200 (EET) In-Reply-To: <83CEEFF8DC7149C1A89D91B6DD5BF312@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:09:50 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) Resent-Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:47:24 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:32439 Archived-At: >> > While the idea behind the triangles (arrows) in Customize is good >> > (actually, I believe it was I who suggested it), the >> > current effect is quite bad. >> > >> > If the value is shown, then the triangle points downward. Typically, >> > that symbol means that clicking it will display something additional >> > below the symbol. Instead, the value disappears. >> > >> > If the value is not shown, the the symbol is a right-pointing >> > triangle. That's OK in this case, since it suggests that clicking it >> > will display something to the right, and the value is to the right. >> > >> > However, for the symbol that replaces `More', a right-pointing >> > triangle is inappropriate, since the text is not displayed to its >> > right, but below it. >> >> This is a very standard user interface idiom, known as "disclosure >> triangles". > > Calling it by name and "very standard" doesn't improve anything. It was I who > suggested the idea in the first place. The idea is fine, as I said already. > > "The current _effect_ is bad." That's the point: it is simply not done right. > The result is confusion and easily missing information. See above for details. >From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclosure_widget The state of the widget is often signified by a label with a triangle next to it, pointing sideways when it is collapsed and downward when it is expanded (corresponding to the widget's current state), or a button with an arrow pointing downward when it is collapsed and upward when it is expanded (corresponding to how the widget will change state if the button is clicked). -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/