plan for emacs python tooling (esp python.el, python-mode.el)?

* plan for emacs python tooling (esp python.el, python-mode.el)?
@ 2010-03-15 16:47 Tom Roche
  2010-03-16  3:58 ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Tom Roche @ 2010-03-15 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

summary: Is the near-term plan for GNU emacs (e.g. for 2010-2011) to
ship with python.el, python-mode.el, both, or something completely
different?

details:

Please note I am not seeking to send or receive flame regarding the
various tools, only to get something like "the opinion of the emacs
developers": will emacs in the near future (i.e. 2010-2011) provide
python.el, python-mode.el, both, or something completely different?

I am a long-time (though not expert) GNU Emacs user who has started to
code python more intensively, and would therefore prefer an optimal
python development environment for emacs. Unfortunately there appears to
be no PDEE à la the JDEE, and not even a consensus mode (as was
cperl-mode when I coded perl ~y2k). Thus I need to decide whether to
base my emacs configuration efforts on python.el or python-mode.el.
(Preferably not both, given limited emacs configuration time.)

I would prefer emacs python tooling that

* integrates most easily with other emacs metatools (e.g. CEDET)

* ships by default with GNU emacs.

(and would like for those sets to be identical :-) I would therefore
like to know what is/are

* the preferences among {GNU emacs users, python developers}

* the plans of the emacs development community (to the extent they are
  unitary)

regarding emacs python tooling. 

I sought to determine this myself via some research (which could be
wrong--your comments and corrections are appreciated) over the weekend,
but found neither explicit plan(s) regarding, nor consensus on the
merits of, python.el vs python-mode.el. What I (apparently) found is:

0 Currently python.el is distributed with emacs releases, python-mode.el
  is distributed with python releases.

1 python.el remains alone in the current emacs sources:

https://savannah.gnu.org/projects/emacs
>  you can browse the source repository or access it via bzr with
> bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
me@it:~$ sudo aptitude install bzr
me@it:~$ D=/tmp/emacs-bzr ; mkdir -p $D ; pushd $D
me@it:/tmp/emacs-bzr$ date ; bzr branch http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
> Mon Mar 15 10:45:07 EDT 2010
...
> Branched 99665 revision(s).
me@it:/tmp/emacs-bzr$ date ; find -type f | fgrep -ie 'python'
> Mon Mar 15 11:35:11 EDT 2010
> ./trunk/lisp/cedet/semantic/wisent/python.el
> ./trunk/lisp/cedet/semantic/wisent/python-wy.el
> ./trunk/lisp/progmodes/python.el
me@it:/tmp/emacs-bzr$ head trunk/lisp/cedet/semantic/wisent/python-wy.el
> ;;; semantic/wisent/python-wy.el --- Generated parser support file
...
me@it:/tmp/emacs-bzr$ diff -u trunk/lisp/cedet/semantic/wisent/python.el trunk/lisp/progmodes/python.el
...
-;; Parser support for Python.
+;; Major mode for editing Python, with support for inferior processes.
...

2 There was a long discussion on emacs-devel last year (Jan-Feb 2009)
  regarding switching from python.el to python-mode.el, but there was
  apparently neither definitive conclusion nor subsequent discussion.

3 Stefan Monnier (one of the main emacs maintainers) has expressed a
  conditional preference for python-mode.el:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-02/msg00113.html
> all the Python coders I know install python-mode.el rather than use
> python.el. I don't know if it's representative, but if that's the
> case, then our users would be better served with python-mode.el

4 There has been much discussion on the python-mode list

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode

  since Feb 2009 regarding the switch, but no announcements regarding
  the underlying copyright assignment issues.

5 The python-mode.el development community seems to be larger and
  better organized, or at least their maillist is public.

6 The python.el development community appears to be Dave Love. That
  being said, python.el seems to have python 3 support already, which
  python-mode.el seems to lack.

7 Web searches I have made <insert caveats here/> for various
  combinations of terms={emacs, python, development} seems to show
  some preference among GNU emacs users for using python.el, and for
  basing integrations with other tools (e.g. CEDET) on python.el.

Feel free to reply off- or on-list, and to forward.
TIA, Tom Roche <Tom_Roche@pobox.com>

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