From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs User Friendliness Question/Hope Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:11:23 +0900 Message-ID: <87k4ou26yc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <1279277325.2135.114.camel@logrus.localdomain> <1279290657.2135.131.camel@logrus.localdomain> <4C410A4C.3070508@gmail.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279332701 10163 80.91.229.12 (17 Jul 2010 02:11:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 02:11:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Christoph Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 17 04:11:39 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZwsI-0002aS-Kw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:11:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36535 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZwsH-0002ug-J9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=50541 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZwsB-0002ua-HG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:11:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZwsA-0006jM-CP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:11:27 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:37711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZwsA-0006jH-0i; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:11:26 -0400 Original-Received: from 218.231.253.29.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.253.29] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1OZws8-00033W-4r; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:11:24 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 57C0ADF8A; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:11:23 +0900 (JST) System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <4C410A4C.3070508@gmail.com> (Christoph's message of "Fri, 16 Jul 2010 19:41:32 -0600") Original-Lines: 33 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127472 Archived-At: Christoph writes: > In order to help increasing the "user-friendliness" couldn't we do > something similar to what viper-mode does? I.e. provide different levels > of "Emacs-ness". > > The lowest level (default?) could enable features that are common among > other editors/IDEs, e.g. CUA. Increasing levels could "unlock" more and > more "Emacs-ness" up to the point of where you get what everybody would > consider the "true" Emacs in all its glory. You'd have to be much more specific. This seems like the sort of idea that's attractive when stated vaguely with lots of hand-waving, but would be very hard to actually make work in practice. What "levels" would there be, exactly? What bindings would be different in each level? How would you avoid conflicts between "traditional" Emacs bindings and CUA bindings? How would your scheme work in the presence of 3rd-party packages? Would your scheme discourage people from learning Emacs bindings? As I mentioned in a previous message on this thread, cua-mode, which has fairly limited goals, has to use extremely kludgey methods to achieve them. Something considerably more elaborate would probably have an even harder time. -Miles -- Any man who is a triangle, has thee right, when in Cartesian Space, to have angles, which when summed, come to know more, nor no less, than nine score degrees, should he so wish. [TEMPLE OV THEE LEMUR]