From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:33:08 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87k452p5u3.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87ty4b4329.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hb0b3yoe.fsf@lifelogs.com> <6ED011D5-E185-44C6-BB31-A445A4E5F83A@gmail.com> <87wr976otx.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ipkq6yy5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87boqi6tzz.fsf@linux-hvfx.site> <87ehve3ul8.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lipl22xm.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87boqh20ha.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871urc46c9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <739bsoysp.fsf@news.eternal-september.org> <87ty47r5yt.fsf@lifelogs.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1326036820 9848 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2012 15:33:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 15:33:40 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 08 16:33:36 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukZ-00029P-Pq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:33:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57626 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukZ-0004A1-Cp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:33:35 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:34250) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukW-00049i-B8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:33:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukS-0001Cj-Qz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:33:32 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:38492) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukS-0001CW-AK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 10:33:28 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RjukR-00024x-BO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:33:27 +0100 Original-Received: from c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([76.28.40.19]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:33:27 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:33:27 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 49 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never Cancel-Lock: sha1:WnBCCPMjnY0Bee85Uk/Yql/is/A= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147488 Archived-At: On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:40:34 +0900 "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: SJT> I'm not sure that the above even applies to Ted, though. AIUI, you SJT> misread Ted's main argument, which is that an automatic notification SJT> service for security updates (not necessarily involving distribution SJT> of GnuTLS binaries for Windows users, though it *could* eventually do SJT> so) would be beneficial for (almost) all Emacs users and therefore the SJT> project. What I've now propsed, after Chong clarified the maintainers' position, is the same service, enabled by default but with no packages (so an interested user only has to customize one variable and it does nothing otherwise). I think that's the middle ground we've been looking for. I only need to know, from Stefan or Chong, if that proposal is OK and if it should go into the current trunk or if it should wait until 24.1 is out. On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 03:34:46 -0500 Eli Zaretskii wrote: EZ> Building these add-ons and providing installers for them must be a job EZ> of a separate group of volunteers, not of the Emacs project. The job EZ> of the Emacs project is to provide infrastructure for integration with EZ> those add-ons, such as dynamic-library-alist populated with the names EZ> of the supported DLLs and the machinery to load the DLLs on demand. >> But this is not petty, it's fundamental! Proponents who argue that >> distribution of GnuTLS binaries is needed for Windows users are >> ignoring a very important distinction: users (new adopters) of the GNU >> System (and at lower priority, free OSes in general) vs. users of >> non-free OSes and OSes whose attractiveness is based on non-free >> software. Supporting the former is the policy of GNU Emacs; >> supporting the latter is not (though of course individual developers >> are free to contribute to such support if they like). EZ> That is true, but we don't even distribute GnuTLS for GNU systems, so EZ> talking about doing that for Windows is _really_ far-fetched. Let's agree the GNU Emacs project will not be distributing GnuTLS (or any other third-party library) binaries for any platform. I think I was clear on that from the beginning but maybe I did not state it well. My proposals for distributing binaries were either a GNU ELPA package; a standalone GnuTLS installer; or an Emacs installer (anything but downloading a zip file!). Through our discussion I've seen that an Emacs installer/patcher as Joakim suggested is the best choice, with a GNU ELPA package set up as an opt-in update notifier if my notification proposal above is approved. Ted