From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 03:08:27 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <87k3j6tye3.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> References: <87ppsyu1l0.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1377652220 25413 80.91.229.3 (28 Aug 2013 01:10:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2013 01:10:20 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 28 03:10:24 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VEUH6-0007mz-BG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Aug 2013 03:10:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59814 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VEUH5-0007pK-T4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Aug 2013 21:10:19 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin1!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 111 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: VVbyYd/iFZoeWNmD9i++cQ.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:ehUiDkhKEn8IepW3QSe6tzFJO3U= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:200854 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93122 Archived-At: Marc Weber writes: > I've been starting to learn Vim in the first place because I > felt hitting meta- and ctrl- all the time would hurt my fingers Yes, it hurt my fingers bad for a while. I solved it by wearing gloves with cut fingers (like the one burglar use), and, instead of the Meta key, I setup another prefix key, C-o [1], as well as the shell-like-CLI described in another thread, on M-i. It is actually not the Meta key, but M-x, that is my problem. > You cannot compare Vim & Emacs, neither should you. Why not? > Both are well suited to edit "text", thus to write emails. Are there vim equivalences for rmail and Gnus? > If anybody prefers one over the other its a very personal > preference. No, it can be analyzed. I haven't used vim 1% of my Emacs time, so I'm not the person to do it, though. > So this thread might end up being yet another flame war. All threads might end up in flame wars. But we are not flaming now, and I'm not about to, either. > Without giving reasons your sentence looks like being a personal > preference only. So we should not comment on it. So your comment is that we should not comment on it... > WTF - never heared about IDEA, Eclipse, Netbeans, JEdit, > notepad++ and what not? I've heard of Eclipse, Netbeans, and notepad++, and I know enough about them to never, *ever* trade Emacs for that. I mean... sure, you can program on my TI-83 calculator (in Basic) - or you can do O's and 1's in a cave well, with a stone axe. But I never met a programmer who did that, and I don't think that is by chance. > And there are many many many blogs which get written in browsers > probably (?) (Think about the facebook community alone) I hate FB and blogs (the technology that is, I know there are good blog posts), and the bare thought of writing in a browser is repulsive. (Unless the browser is Emacs-w3m.) > Also there are "multiple forks of Emacs" - talking about one > Emacs could be too limited. I talk about GNU Emacs on a Linux or otherwise Unix system. > Let's say it differently: Just because you cannot imagine > programmers using tools others than Emacs/Vim, it doesn't mean > that no such programmers/programs exist. "The black swan" is a > book dedicated to this topic. Let's put it this way: all the programmers I've met who I have respect for, as programmers and otherwise, use Emacs or Vim. > Eg one thing which comes to my mind is "disassemblers", there > are some dedicated tools which eventually outperform Emacs. What's that? > Well - emacs can display images, Vim cannot. So yes, Emacs > eventually is better for some latex tasks. The LaTeX mode is very helpful. I don't use Emacs to show the PDFs, as I always use Emacs in a Linux VT. I just switch to X with M-u and check the PDF file in xpdf. > And depending on what you need, neither Vim nor Emacs should be > the tool of your choice, or can Emacs do VBA completion !? :-) > (I didn't look it up, maybe it even can, but I think writing > Word macros should still be done using the Word Macro editor) It *is* Emacs or Vim. 100%. Why on earth would you use Word (?!) - at all, ever? What would you need it for? > Thus unless there is a particular use case the whole discusion > is pretty much void IMHO. For a void discussion, you sure had a lot to say. [1] (defun init-C-o-prefix () (interactive) (define-prefix-command 'C-o-prefix) (global-set-key "\C-o" 'C-o-prefix) (init-C-o-keys) ) (add-hook 'after-init-hook 'init-C-o-prefix) (defun init-C-o-keys () (interactive) (let ((map (current-global-map))) (define-key map "\C-o1" 'delete-other-windows) (define-key map "\C-o2" 'split-window-vertically) (define-key map "\C-os" 'web-search) ; etc. )) -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573