From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 02:25:29 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <87k3j4uir1.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> References: <87r4ddo4yp.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87d2oww758.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87y57kur51.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1377822617 19787 80.91.229.3 (30 Aug 2013 00:30:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 00:30:17 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 30 02:30:21 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VFCbV-0004Yn-7W for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 02:30:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46586 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFCbU-0003Ro-Py for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 20:30:20 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin3!goblin1!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 91 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: VVbyYd/iFZoeWNmD9i++cQ.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:R+xRYAw/7Sm8edWOYeY/QvPe+yw= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:200896 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93165 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> You always tell me I should report all problems as bugs. > > No, I do *not* tell you or anyone else that. You have told me that at least three times. > Use your *judgment*. If *you* think something is not as it > could be & should be in Emacs, then *you* can think about > whether or not *you* might want to make an enhancement request > or report a bug. That's the point. Yes, the concept of reporting bugs is not that radical. > Good for you. You are a big boy now; it's clear. And you are dismissive and negative. > But I am not trying to help only you, Emanuel. I have found > that reminding readers of this list of the possibility of > reporting to Emacs Dev can be helpful - for Emacs and for Emacs > users generally. I think it is much better if you work actively with them to solve the problem, than to encourage them to just report it. OK, say that you report a bug. What's next? Do you wait for a new version of Emacs, in which the bug is fixed? Do you aptitude new libraries? What do you do? > IOW, for me it is not just about getting you an answer to your > little problem. Again, you are dismissive and disrespectful to other people's efforts. > I don't need to read or reply to your emails at all. Right, and *you* are in my KILL file. I decided not to take part in any more flame wars after my computer broke. Meta discussion is not productive in almost all of the cases, including this one. I'm not saying anything more than this message, and thanks to Gnus I won't see any more or your messages - but hey, don't let that stop you, you can still solve my "little problems", all to the benefit of everyone else still taking part of your bitterness. > I reply to messages when I think what I have to say might help > someone. It's not about you. Wrong. It is about me. I have *one life* and I'm not letting you waste another minute of it. > Now, because Emacs is a self-documenting editor, you can also > *just ask Emacs*. That's the point in pointing people to the > doc instead of just providing an answer: learn to fish. Emacs > is a fertile fishing ground. That point is moronic. The point of communication is that is is enjoyable and productive. It is a way to be active, it is a way to think, to live. If you don't appreciate that, why are you here? Are you here to be dismissive of people's efforts, and to bark at them they should read the manual? Is this a role you think is honorable? And why do you always assume that answering is of more value than asking? I don't see you in a position to learn me anything apart from babbling variables and quoting the sacred scrolls. For that, I agree, I prefer the manual! > My recommendation - for anyone - is to ask Emacs first (e.g., > check doc and source code). Ask `help-gnu-emacs', or stack > overflow, or whatever else only after asking Emacs itself. Yes, you are an asocial, non-communicative computer geek. Well, I'm not, and I will not be. > In the long run, doing that will be the most helpful, IMHO. > Emacs knows more and usually explains better, when it comes to > questions about Emacs. Why is there this newsgroup? Why are you here? Why aren't we all just alone, quiet, with Emacs, and the Emacs manual? > (Yes, asking Emacs can be harder for someone for whom English is > not so easy. And yes, anyone is free to ignore my advice and > ask a help list first - no problem.) See you when you get there, Drew. -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573