From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord)
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, "Kai Großjohann" <kai.grossjohann@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 17:05:45 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87k3hf7s86.fsf@zerg32.ncl.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20367a8e-c17c-4a10-8934-b5a24f2cddf0@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Mon, 14 Oct 2013 06:45:44 -0700")
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> > Yes. Which is especially important for a heavily interactive and
>> > customizable program such as Emacs. Emacs users extend and
>> > otherwise modify or adapt the source code, and they do so sometimes
>> > on the fly and interactively.
>>
>> I don't think this is an advantage of dynamic binding; it's just an
>> advantage of having lots of configuration options.
>
> Which are dynamically bound variables. Perhaps you are not as lexical
> as you think. ;-)
>
> Do you mean that you are OK with assigning values to such global,
> dynamically bound variables at startup time, and you are OK with a
> user changing their values interactively anytime (e.g. using Customize),
> but you are not OK with code let-binding global, dynamically bound
> variables? Assignment is OK by you, but not let-binding?
Well, users don't change their values anytime. For a start, they can
only change them when the interpreter is not doing anything else. An,
they tend not to do this often.
As far as I can see, something like the dynamic behaviour of let is
always possible in a lexical binding environment -- you just push the
global value onto a stack, and pop it off again afterwards; what can be
done by the lisp interpreter can be done in lisp also.
Do I like changing values of variables underneath the nose of a
function; in general, no, because I think it is a little unpredictable.
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17 (Richard
> Stallman, 1981), including:
>
> "Formal Parameters Cannot Replace Dynamic Scope
>
> Some language designers believe that dynamic binding should be avoided,
> and explicit argument passing should be used instead. Imagine that
> function A binds the variable FOO, and calls the function B, which
> calls the function C, and C uses the value of FOO. Supposedly A should
> pass the value as an argument to B, which should pass it as an argument
> to C.
I haven't heard RMS talk about this recently, but 30 years ago is a
long time. One simple, alternative, solution to the problem is to pass
around a single map between A, B and C. Not often done in elisp, but
very common in R for instance, where functions will pass graphics
contexts around until it gets to someone who cares.
Phil
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-10-14 16:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-10-12 17:56 DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Andreas Röhler
2013-10-12 18:35 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Dmitry Gutov
2013-10-12 20:53 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Drew Adams
2013-10-13 5:09 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-10-13 7:54 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Andreas Röhler
2013-10-13 13:46 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Kai Großjohann
2013-10-13 16:21 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Drew Adams
2013-10-14 11:21 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Phillip Lord
2013-10-14 13:45 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Drew Adams
2013-10-14 16:05 ` Phillip Lord [this message]
2013-10-14 21:32 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Kai Großjohann
2013-10-15 11:27 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Phillip Lord
2013-10-15 20:43 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Kai Großjohann
2013-10-16 12:57 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Phillip Lord
[not found] ` <mailman.4127.1381928277.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-10-16 14:26 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Barry Margolin
[not found] ` <mailman.3929.1381681317.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-10-14 11:27 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Rustom Mody
2013-10-14 11:15 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Phillip Lord
[not found] <mailman.3891.1381600459.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2013-10-13 3:34 ` DynamicBindingVsLexicalBinding Barry Margolin
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=87k3hf7s86.fsf@zerg32.ncl.ac.uk \
--to=phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk \
--cc=drew.adams@oracle.com \
--cc=help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org \
--cc=kai.grossjohann@gmx.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.