From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:50:13 +0100 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87k3g3zvsa.fsf@informatimago.com> References: <87r4adfwot.fsf@earlgrey.lan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1384912286 20012 80.91.229.3 (20 Nov 2013 01:51:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:51:26 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 20 02:51:32 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwx1-0000QD-Ir for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:51:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52430 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwx1-00087Z-2l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:51:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45915) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwwu-00087G-1e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:51:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwwp-0001aE-7n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:35333) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwwo-0001ZH-V4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:51:19 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Viwwl-0000Jh-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:51:15 +0100 Original-Received: from 90.24.131.105 ([90.24.131.105]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:51:15 +0100 Original-Received: from pjb by 90.24.131.105 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 02:51:15 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 61 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 90.24.131.105 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZjVjNDg1MGE5YWRhMjU4ODQ3MWYwZmM0MzBhMjMwOTdmM2I5MWYxOQ== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165415 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider > [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, > [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. > > There are a lot of reactions on this thread that seem somewhat hesitant > about emacs adding WYSIWIG support, but I suspect it's fear that #2 will > corrupt the lisp machine interfaces that we already know and > enjoy... but I doubt that the emacs community would let that happen > anyway. > > Lisp is one of the benefits of Emacs that I wish I had when doing > WYSIWIG word processing. To abandon that would defeat the whole point > of this. It seems to me it would be easier, and produce a better result with less effort, to add lisp to LibreOffice than WISIWIG word-processor features to emacs. The overview of libreoffice says: You can develop for LibreOffice in one of two ways, one recommended and one much less so. First the somewhat less recommended way: it is possible to use the SDK, for wihch you can read the API docs here http://api.libreoffice.org/. This re-uses the (extremely generic) APIs we provide for macro scripting in StarBasic. The best way to add a generally useful feature to LibreOffice is to work on the code base however. Overall this way makes it easier to compile and build your code, it avoids any arbitrary limitations of our scripting APIs, and in general is far more simple and intuitive - if you are a reasonably able C++ programmer. The C++ code uses quite a number of templates, so I guess it won't be easy to generate automatically a FFI to drive the C++ program from lisp. But it seems to me that it would be easy enough to target the LibreOffice API, so that you can write LibreOffice scripts in lisp. Since this API is apparently written in Java, we could consider using ABCL to do this. (Or if you insist on it, some scheme implementation on Java or JVM). Otherwise, the main part of WISIWIG, is to represent on screen something that is isomorph to what's represented elsewhere. That is, on paper and, nowadays, on web pages. So the first thing would be to implement a model and views of paper pages (page size and layout, margins, resolutions, fonts, paint, colors), and for web page rendering, we'd need a HTML rendering engine (probably including Javascript). Already only that seems like a bigger job than integrating lisp with the API of LibreOffice… -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/