From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nic Ferrier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: package and testing rant (was Re: package.el, auto-installation, and auto-removal) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:02:56 +0000 Message-ID: <87k332lnn3.fsf_-_@ferrier.me.uk> References: <87a943umku.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ppcvm7fj.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vbmndk46.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87wq72ls2h.fsf@ferrier.me.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415657002 16923 80.91.229.3 (10 Nov 2014 22:03:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:03:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 10 23:03:14 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnx3J-0008E7-P3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:03:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45263 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnx3J-0003Tm-Dr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:03:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54333) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnx3A-0003Si-Nk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:03:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnx34-00008c-Qq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:03:04 -0500 Original-Received: from static.17.66.46.78.clients.your-server.de ([78.46.66.17]:55108 helo=po1.ferrier.me.uk) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xnx34-00008J-LM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:02:58 -0500 Original-Received: from nicferrier-dell-xps (140.35.155.90.in-addr.arpa [90.155.35.140]) by po1.ferrier.me.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 79E45AC011A; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 23:21:16 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from nicferrier-XPS13-9333 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nicferrier-dell-xps (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C39656BA00; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:02:56 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:49:26 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.46.66.17 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176719 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I am still cross about the whole state of packaging. It's wrong. But no >> one seems to be listening to me. > > I'm not sure if you're referring to the way GNU ELPA works or about > package.el. About GNU ELPA, it's not that I don't listen, but that > I disagree. The point of GNU ELPA to not to just distribute other > people's packages. I am cross about the way we are building this system, ELPA. Not about package.el, or about what ELPA is. But about how ELPA (and MELPA) work, and to some extent, the provisions we have made for package creation. I don't have any complaints about single file packages. My complaints are all about multi file packages. The multi-packages users load in their emacs are tars. But the packages that are checked in to ELPA are directories of files. So package authors are not checking in what gets delivered to the user. So there is a magic build step somewhere. This discourages testing of packages before they are distributed. And I am really starting to think we need better testing. 24.4 looked like a slog to release and it still has many bugs. And yes, I promise to help more. But that's not really the issue. This isn't scaling. We need to have better QA tools. And packages having hidden builds is going the other way. Nic