From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: text-quoting-style Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 15:46:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87k2sa45h2.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83r3mn50rz.fsf@gnu.org> <20150828172501.GB4882@acm.fritz.box> <20150829155959.GA20484@acm.fritz.box> <20150830131613.GA2724@acm.fritz.box> <55E3F447.4050005@cs.ucla.edu> <20150831201343.GB2280@acm.fritz.box> <55E4C724.3060108@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441117073 14700 80.91.229.3 (1 Sep 2015 14:17:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 14:17:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 01 16:17:44 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmNV-0007l2-QD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 16:17:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54535 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmNV-0008HL-Nz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:17:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45256) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmMZ-0007VL-OC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:16:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmMT-00010u-Rm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:16:39 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:47097) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmMN-0000zy-G5; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:16:27 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60130 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWmMI-000595-Jf; Tue, 01 Sep 2015 10:16:23 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C00EAE32A5; Tue, 1 Sep 2015 15:46:49 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <55E4C724.3060108@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:29:08 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.10 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:189387 Archived-At: Paul Eggert writes: > On 08/31/2015 01:13 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:29:27PM -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: >>> (1) is fixed by using display tables to display curved quotes in grave = style. >>> (This has already been implemented and no change should be needed here.) >> No good. Having different characters displayed from what's in the >> buffer is a recipe for confusion, frustration, and anger. > > It's what Emacs does now, and it works well enough. And the basic > idea isn't a new principle: Emacs has done it for decades for many > ASCII characters, e.g., HT. So it is not a problem in practice. HT works fine for copy&paste&search&replace. But characters like =E2=80=99= and =E2=80=98 don't magically turn back into ' and ` if you try pasting them in= to some source code or want to search for them. If we were talking about display table hacks and/or the display text property, this might become the case. But at the current point of time, the conversion of ` and ' into =E2=80=98 = and =E2=80=99 is much more sticky than the expansion of tabs to spaces which is a mere display feature. Reaching a technical consensus is not feasible as long as people keep twisting the facts since obviously people with a different desired outcome will twist them into different directions. --=20 David Kastrup