From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Development suggestions from an ENSIME developer Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 21:14:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87k2gcm7sk.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <46f603db-cf91-495d-d330-87b3538b7872@gmail.com> <87oa5pnvam.fsf@cochranmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1469375232 9808 80.91.229.3 (24 Jul 2016 15:47:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 15:47:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit--Claudel , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Robert Cochran Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 24 17:47:01 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLcK-0007px-K3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:47:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56458 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLcJ-0002yQ-Qg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:46:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46987) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLbW-0002wG-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:46:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLbT-0002Tj-PY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:46:09 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:44448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLbT-0002Ic-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 11:46:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=Hl0XpGxIrWdcA7YyPoNbZtjIuL7y3defnAlVGT7cVRA=; b=wYb5hdBQZfQICw8phSKAgrx93L bWyTFqkReU5Ql8JnPRvfVT8cIcD4O/mvIBiQHEdiKsZX/FXbkeBCucYzSQUr6WaAdwAU+tX4H/sKC RIjrH8A8+ueiWcKlnz/DQ78wH7LZWQQ3vhPCv8IeZpxzsdFshnv9iVx5FjhbtG5/eEq1Zb4ohLgYa xgd//nW0/LdqZGZrksvAl16JkK7D/feekzX2qgrwTUM6F24cpQzLfLxXt97X1rNvGfxqDSQOC2CGM oC9uMU1BNZ6biDPPZYWDzwCZG1JSnKKeeNMJuKP0oTj/rIyVJ1HpxvDgZ6OZf2RiJB4TMvsxofusQ Gi++vTHg==; Original-Received: from [151.65.229.249] (port=53889 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bRLam-002Yix-Mr; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:45:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87oa5pnvam.fsf@cochranmail.com> (Robert Cochran's message of "Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:48:49 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:206085 Archived-At: I wasn't going to comment on this point, but I felt that your email merited a response. Robert Cochran writes: > Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel writes: > >> I for one would welcome a code of conduct :) These things tend to send >> an explicit positive message, and there are virtually no downsides to >> having one. > > I disagree. This is one point that we agree with; CoC always remind me of the "Great Loyality Crusade". In the end, these things can become a purpose in themselves, as opposed their original intention. > That tends to be an indicator that the SJWs have infected a project. "infection" is a verb that we apply to disease. Personally, I find it lacking in respect and rather worrisome to apply this to people what ever we think of them. I feel the same about the use of "cancer" or "the enemy within". I would ask that you do not do this. You are welcome to describe this as political correctness; you'd even be using the term correctly, which is a rarity these days. > See http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3D6918 for a larger picture. Let me leave > you with this excerpt to set the stage (slightly adjusted to better fit > ASCII): > >> Rosario tagged his Twitter report "Social Justice in action!" He knows >> who these people are: SJWs, "Social Justice Warriors". And, unless you >> have been living under a rock, so do you. These are the people =E2=80=93= the >> political and doctrinal tendency, united if in no other way by an >> elaborate shared jargon and a seething hatred of djangoconcardiff=E2=80= =99s >> "white straight male", who recently hounded Nobel laureate Tim Hunt out >> of his job with a /fraudulent/ accusation of sexist remarks. While I am very respectful of Eric's many talents, in the case of Tim Hunt he is entirely incorrect. I am a biologist as well as a software developer, I'm familiar with Tim's work and, of course, a greatly admire it. When I heard his statements reported (and which he then justified on national radio), I considered them to be silly, but then felt that, hopefully, he would have learned his lesson, and then we should just forgive and forget. But, then I discussed the issue with many of my colleagues; turns out, that they were less willing to forgive. Actually, many of there were extremely angry. Like me, science is a part of their life, a vocation not an occupation. But, they had just heard a senior scientist describe them as not good enough, prone to tears when criticised, just because they are women. I was wrong; it's not my place to forgive and forget, it's theirs. I think Tim wasn't hounded out of his job by "social justice warriors"; I think he left out of embarrassment when he realised how many of his colleagues he had deeply offended. > I know that I'm a relative newcomer to the Emacs lists, and that my > opinion isn't going to be as highly esteemed as some, but this issue is > important to me and I feel like I need to make my voice heard. As another relative newcomer, welcome to the mailing list. Phil