Face to face

Face to face

[John Wiegley]

This evening I had the most enjoyable privilege of being able to spend time
with Stefan Monnier at a tavern in Oxford, UK. It made us both realize how
valuable it is to interact with people in person; it changes how we read what
they write online, and what we think they're thinking when they write it.

During our many conversations, we thought: what if we had an Emacs Developer's
Meetup, for people to come together from emacs-devel, so that many of us --
who have been corresponding about Emacs for years -- could get to know these
people who have been a part of our lives for so long?

Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli and some
of the other past maintainers to join us?

Just some thoughts,
-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 9:06 AM John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> This evening I had the most enjoyable privilege of being able to spend time
> with Stefan Monnier at a tavern in Oxford, UK. It made us both realize how
> valuable it is to interact with people in person; it changes how we read
> what
> they write online, and what we think they're thinking when they write it.
>

+1


> During our many conversations, we thought: what if we had an Emacs
> Developer's
> Meetup, for people to come together from emacs-devel, so that many of us --
> who have been corresponding about Emacs for years -- could get to know
> these
> people who have been a part of our lives for so long?
>
> Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli and
> some
> of the other past maintainers to join us?
>

That's the biggest question.. "Where?" We have amazing contributors from
all over the world. Probably has to be at a major airport hub for
relatively cheaper flight tickets. May be the location keeps on rotating
around the world where there are higher concentrations of Emacs
developers/contributors.

I look forward to these meetups starting, and hopefully I can afford time
and money-wise to attend one of those :)
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Face to face

[Christopher Allan Webber]

Kaushal Modi writes:

>> During our many conversations, we thought: what if we had an Emacs
>> Developer's
>> Meetup, for people to come together from emacs-devel, so that many of us --
>> who have been corresponding about Emacs for years -- could get to know
>> these
>> people who have been a part of our lives for so long?
>>
>> Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli and
>> some
>> of the other past maintainers to join us?
>>
>
> That's the biggest question.. "Where?" We have amazing contributors from
> all over the world. Probably has to be at a major airport hub for
> relatively cheaper flight tickets. May be the location keeps on rotating
> around the world where there are higher concentrations of Emacs
> developers/contributors.

FOSDEM?  LibrePlanet?

Re: Face to face

[Karl Fogel]

John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:
>This evening I had the most enjoyable privilege of being able to spend time
>with Stefan Monnier at a tavern in Oxford, UK. It made us both realize how
>valuable it is to interact with people in person; it changes how we read what
>they write online, and what we think they're thinking when they write it.
>
>During our many conversations, we thought: what if we had an Emacs Developer's
>Meetup, for people to come together from emacs-devel, so that many of us --
>who have been corresponding about Emacs for years -- could get to know these
>people who have been a part of our lives for so long?
>
>Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli and some
>of the other past maintainers to join us?
>
>Just some thoughts,

Even though I don't have much time to do Emacs development these days <sad face>, I would still try hard to come to such a meetup.  Meeting in person is indeed very important (at least for some people it is).  I might even try to use it as an emotional crutch to help me put Emacs fixes higher among other competing priorities :-).  It's easier to decide to spend time on something when it is associated with the pleasure of working with people I know in person.

So, strong +1, and thanks for suggesting it.

Best regards,
-Karl

Re: Face to face

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:24 PM Christopher Allan Webber <
cwebber@dustycloud.org> wrote:

>
> FOSDEM?  LibrePlanet?
>

Looks like FOSDEM is always in Brussels, Belgium, and LibrePlanet is always
in Cambridge, MA, US.

Even if one Emacs meetup is planned to happen in MA, I would do my best to
attend it.
-- 

Kaushal Modi

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Re: Face to face

[Etienne Prud’homme]

John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:

> Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli
> and some of the other past maintainers to join us?

Are you including not so contributors
but-willing-to-be-in-the-long-term-and-reading-all-messages-in-this-mailing-list?
I would understand if that’s only for anointed hackers.

Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> That's the biggest question.. "Where?" We have amazing contributors from all
> over the world. Probably has to be at a major airport hub for relatively cheaper
> flight tickets. May be the location keeps on rotating around the world where there
> are higher concentrations of Emacs developers/contributors.

I would either suggest:

  a) Montréal -- because that’s where (I tink) Stefan used to live. Also
  that’s where I live.

  b) Boston -- That’s where the church is established since
  centuries. Also one of the holiest city.

--
Etienne

Re: Face to face

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2017-09-08, at 00:30, John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> This evening I had the most enjoyable privilege of being able to spend time
> with Stefan Monnier at a tavern in Oxford, UK. It made us both realize how
> valuable it is to interact with people in person; it changes how we read what
> they write online, and what we think they're thinking when they write it.
>
> During our many conversations, we thought: what if we had an Emacs Developer's
> Meetup, for people to come together from emacs-devel, so that many of us --
> who have been corresponding about Emacs for years -- could get to know these
> people who have been a part of our lives for so long?
>
> Where could such a meeting happen? When? Could we get Richard and Eli and some
> of the other past maintainers to join us?
>
> Just some thoughts,

Nice idea.  I'd probably not attend (costs...), but I'd love to.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski

Re: Face to face

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Etienne Prud’homme <e.e.f.prudhomme@gmail.com> writes:

> Are you including not so contributors
> but-willing-to-be-in-the-long-term-and-reading-all-messages-in-this-mailing-list?
> I would understand if that’s only for anointed hackers.

I would not turn away anyone who wanted to come.

>   a) Montréal -- because that’s where (I tink) Stefan used to live. Also
>   that’s where I live.

I'd love to see Montréal!

>   b) Boston -- That’s where the church is established since
>   centuries. Also one of the holiest city.

The easiest for me. My workplace is located here, and I often fly back to
visit the office.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I would be glad to participate in an Emacs developers' meetup if the
place and time are ok for me.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Face to face

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> I would be glad to participate in an Emacs developers' meetup if the place
> and time are ok for me.

I feel for our European colleagues, and I know it would make it difficult for
Eli to come, but perhaps in honor of Richard would could have the first such
meeting at or near MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA.

Based on success, we could then plan a followup meeting, perhaps in Spain or
Italy?

How about sometime in the spring of 2018?

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2017 10:10:26 +0100
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> >>>>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I would be glad to participate in an Emacs developers' meetup if the place
> > and time are ok for me.
> 
> I feel for our European colleagues, and I know it would make it difficult for
> Eli to come, but perhaps in honor of Richard would could have the first such
> meeting at or near MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA.

I will not willingly come to the US any time soon, not as long as the
ridiculous TSA regulations are in place.  My US visa (which was
"indefinite") was revoked, and I have no plans renewing it any time
soon, not if I can help that.

Sorry, I know it's not your fault.

Re: Face to face

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> I will not willingly come to the US any time soon, not as long as the
> ridiculous TSA regulations are in place. My US visa (which was "indefinite")
> was revoked, and I have no plans renewing it any time soon, not if I can
> help that.

This is a very good point. Even my Iranian wife was worried about coming to
visit me in Paris next week, wondering if she could even come back home.

So given tensions within the US toward international visitors, maybe a first
meeting in, say, Montreal would be a better idea.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Etienne Prud’homme]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:


> I will not willingly come to the US any time soon, not as long as the
> ridiculous TSA regulations are in place.

What kind of regulation are you referring to?

> My US visa (which was "indefinite") was revoked, and I have no plans
> renewing it any time soon, not if I can help that.

Have you thought obtaining a religious visa?  I know a friend, he was on
the blacklist (for unknown reason) and had to take a religious visa in
order to come to the US.

Otherwise, I hope Canada would be an easier place for all of non-US
citizens.

--
Etienne

Re: Face to face

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Etienne Prud’homme <e.e.f.prudhomme@gmail.com>
> Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>,  rms@gnu.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2017 10:12:45 -0400
> 
> > I will not willingly come to the US any time soon, not as long as the
> > ridiculous TSA regulations are in place.
> 
> What kind of regulation are you referring to?

All of them.  Including body searches, taking fingerprints, etc.

> > My US visa (which was "indefinite") was revoked, and I have no plans
> > renewing it any time soon, not if I can help that.
> 
> Have you thought obtaining a religious visa?

I simply refuse to come to the US as long as this madness continues.

Re: Face to face

[Stephen Leake]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Etienne Prud’homme <e.e.f.prudhomme@gmail.com>
>> Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>,  rms@gnu.org,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2017 10:12:45 -0400
>> 
>> > I will not willingly come to the US any time soon, not as long as the
>> > ridiculous TSA regulations are in place.
>> 
>> What kind of regulation are you referring to?
>
> All of them.  Including body searches, taking fingerprints, etc.
>
>> > My US visa (which was "indefinite") was revoked, and I have no plans
>> > renewing it any time soon, not if I can help that.
>> 
>> Have you thought obtaining a religious visa?
>
> I simply refuse to come to the US as long as this madness continues.

I'm a US citizen, and I completely support your position. "madness" it
is. Some of us are working to change things, but it will be a while ...

-- 
-- Stephe

Re: Face to face

[Paul Eggert]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> All of them.  Including body searches, taking fingerprints, etc.

I'm no fan of the current US travel rules either. As it happens, the worst body 
search I ever endured was in Ben Gurion Airport more than two decades ago. 
Somehow I got flagged as a potential bad guy - maybe it was my beard - who 
knows! It was not fun, and I have not been back. So I completely sympathize with 
Eli's desire to avoid the US.

Re: Face to face

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Meeting at LibrePlanet might be the most convenient option for the
most Emacs developers, but there there is no need to have the meeting
in Cambridge for my personal sake.  I go to Europe a few times a year.

I can't blame anyone for not wanting to visit the US.
If I were not a US citizen, I would not want to come here.

I know several people in Montreal who might be able to host a meeting.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Face to face

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:

> So given tensions within the US toward international visitors, maybe a first
> meeting in, say, Montreal would be a better idea.

I'm all for Montreal or somewhere else in Canada.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Face to face

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 10:10:26 +0100 John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote: 

JW> I feel for our European colleagues, and I know it would make it difficult for
JW> Eli to come, but perhaps in honor of Richard would could have the first such
JW> meeting at or near MIT in Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA.

JW> Based on success, we could then plan a followup meeting, perhaps in Spain or
JW> Italy?

JW> How about sometime in the spring of 2018?

I can make any of Boston/Cambridge, Massachusetts (I live there) or Montreal.

Ted

Re: Face to face

[Bastien]

Hi John,

thanks for suggesting this!  I would love to participate to this
event and I don't have any preference for the date and location.

All best,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Face to face

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> "B" == Bastien  <bzg@gnu.org> writes:

B> thanks for suggesting this! I would love to participate to this event and I
B> don't have any preference for the date and location.

Maybe something in the early summer in Montreal would work?

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Bastien Guerry]

"John Wiegley" <johnw@gnu.org> writes:

>>>>>> "B" == Bastien  <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
>
> B> thanks for suggesting this! I would love to participate to this event and I
> B> don't have any preference for the date and location.
>
> Maybe something in the early summer in Montreal would work?

Whatever is fine for most participants, I will try to adapt.

Montreal would be great indeed!

-- 
 Bastien

Re: Face to face

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I will be in Montreal for the first few days of May.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Face to face

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> I will be in Montreal for the first few days of May.

I have one obligation at the very end of April, still waiting to find out the
dates. It's quite possible I could fly to Montreal from there. I'll update
this list when I find out.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Face to face

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

Just because I have a trip to Montreal doesn't necessarily mean the
meeting has to be then.  I can go at some other time, if that is better
for most people.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.

Re: Face to face

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I will be in Montreal for the first few days of May.
> I have one obligation at the very end of April, still waiting to find out the
> dates. It's quite possible I could fly to Montreal from there. I'll update
> this list when I find out.

BTW, would there be money in Emacs's planned budget to pay for my trip
to Montréal?


        Stefan

Re: Face to face

[Phillip Lord]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>>> I will be in Montreal for the first few days of May.
>> I have one obligation at the very end of April, still waiting to find out the
>> dates. It's quite possible I could fly to Montreal from there. I'll update
>> this list when I find out.
>
> BTW, would there be money in Emacs's planned budget to pay for my trip
> to Montréal?


I'll donate you the cost of a bus ticket...

Phil