From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:15:02 +0000 Message-ID: <87jztcrg49.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <87r0nlngmo.fsf@posteo.net> <87msy8vq6m.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29499"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel , Manuel Uberti To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 30 12:15:59 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qbIEx-0007Pt-EX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 12:15:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbIEI-0001N6-QU; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:15:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbIEF-0001Mh-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:15:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qbIE7-0000Hd-8C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 06:15:15 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4F7D240104 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 12:15:04 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693390504; bh=s1DWk2V/9TXGUYs1DoQ31+n/nZ8JYa87Jp+biPshVAc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=m1zV7lrgBWSZ2w2DwBp2kQYhl023C4RqAdTdHUFC9JFSxlfCJ/xDR3CqKOH5EsVfy jwigYK9ZKT3Jw57zHGzuRc6GB2DiUESZLe2qj/J6SRrEKLpGLJEPwgkE14wx7viQ34 cT8J/FwuApwaGs5xrgv1r49tj4Xw77nW9rlXlMaMqALnSilNOwcJ8XciwiSdBvjZrM 7B3bihjxc1F0fXLCZc0q7dhcNf0STbx1368Zec/Y54XIgS0gnm/QBT0X6S5bLiJTZf 3Kfb8rz7jvzG4vD9gDYGI+01qmlFcxFFhEmSIix+nvAgBFaMw5YRGwm3lnyd6wubLR YDsljrtoAUV7w== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RbKsz1My1z9rxK; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 12:15:03 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87msy8vq6m.fsf@gmail.com> (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vor?= =?utf-8?Q?a=22's?= message of "Wed, 30 Aug 2023 10:24:01 +0100") X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:danny@dfreeman.email::Pg1lZePtYm3nFDrY:foy X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:eliz@gnu.org::5RPPPqffK2zeGGw6:0oFJ X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:emacs-devel@gnu.org::fiOHsyM38lMkO2LN:3fr6 X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:rms@gnu.org::IKgKXAnj2tGZS4p3:6xmX X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:manuel.uberti@inventati.org::fS2jNOSWx4yZhsoF:2tOD X-Hashcash: 1:20:230830:joaotavora@gmail.com::LzDE/1VDySEIJVYj:DuS/ Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309538 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> I suggested something along these lines up the thread, but didn't try it >> out myself. > > Yes, I read your suggestion, that's why I quoted you ;-) Oh, did you know I can't read ^^ >> Nice to see that the idea works. To avoid confusion, I >> think it might be a good idea to not call this `clojure-mode' as well, >> but something like "clojure-proto-mode" or "primitive-clojure-mode". > > Why? If the NonGNU people are "too cool for school" after having been > invited to GNU, why should the GNU project make even more special > accomodations for them? Not up to me to decide anyway. Mainly because this will affect users, not the maintainer. For example, if a user has a (fboundp 'clojure-mode) check in their configuration somewhere, their script might falsely assume that the entire package has been installed. I know, their check was not particularly robust, but personal configurations are often lenient on these issues. Also, I don't see a reason to provoke the Clojure-mode maintainers. I disagree with their reasoning and fear they have been misinformed, but the best way to remedy situations like these is to be understanding and prove ourselves to be cooperative by example (IMO). >>> No idea if this works with the CIDER or SLIME backends for clojure. >>> Don't ask me to test any more cause I've just uninstalled it all >>> but any clojurians rading can have a go. >> >> I would guess that anyone who is seriously interested in working with >> Clojure, would install the proper major mode and the proper packages. > > I don't know: for some people and/or some tasks, a 3000 LOC major mode > may feel quite bloated, at least when compared one which is -- quite > literally -- a thousand times smaller. > > So, not being a Clojure programmer, I wouldn't "guess" what such > programmer would do. I would just compare one by one what features are > provided by the two modes -- when complemented by LSP of course. > > Also, I would try to establish if the CIDER environment can be invoked > from this new major mode, or if it is strongly coupled to the NonGNU > Clojure mode. If it works anything like SLIME or SLY, it should be some > kind of minor mode which manages a network connection, and thus > theoretically composable. I suppose so too, but can also just guess, since I don't use the language. > Jo=C3=A3o --=20 Philip Kaludercic