From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:34:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87jzrjvze8.fsf@gmx.net> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <8734y7p7sz.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83v8b3mcuj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1131"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 19 09:35:56 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNZR-000AbD-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:35:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNYN-0003zi-Hb; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:34:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNYM-0003zL-Iq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:34:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNYK-0003vY-GO; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:34:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=s31663417; t=1697700880; x=1698305680; i=stephen.berman@gmx.net; bh=dEav7aQUd2jAOzuhhBfA9mIHBPNEJ5/LZTbCmUbRcVo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Date; b=EdjZoA+vxsYiYy3ZxAoAvwEKEXGc8UToSOy3g+jfNeD/fs/peyuSM7XZPcpDqalF InKFPQbojyVelrIK4WX9hHgBvjvbDkPinYrlkQOlknFU0qMxVXjFxB1xNuRaGbSAI gPQU+fU6qpA+Eo8z52pQD9Qs2RdH3mNZp2cPHLWF19L8Ym4yKDocoj3iVNZXQwx8n 77s9bjySlS3puJlqD5Y02NrWTfvJmxkXgFlIpugkOYvwcqxcREj4pYywgkZarMRko kQLodPCee7wXCrReW6BEmun5+vHHU/oVYPSkprGMqcxfx7flXaeRJgk58UmfbKSNz NkTKPOrbGSkT5F4Obg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Original-Received: from strobelfs2 ([89.246.37.228]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MzQg6-1rfYLw2AFM-00vPjH; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:34:40 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83v8b3mcuj.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:54:12 +0300") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:xPl4LFOmo2zuZ3BVAxU11JzcxFOwmr+JRAsunYPOD8mdoQMPNWi 3W4+xlf0JOfJlQiwrMfpY7AwsaPLLi/Gr+8ZGdrrvBVqZRhIvG0+y7euki7//hr1Pbk8o0x Zw6uFy5ZGhsGjY1C/LbJ1HDoCXYDbfKlk6vHHuzVRjKPV8UP1UXqlKfZQ9+pUoZxGl+DKhS zKmtCa2BPZUej4VzHb1kA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:uGjEHV7PIds=;YOfwjSRz22FfMbA4TYQU4VJgefH KnSGqi23K2hcHBrRZdqJjlpmxgtXt9EfYqX4hI/xNNRKlXhWHZ2MQ1xv0Zailj4A+U4tgHaxa z4Gf7KjiFyScpnbeBzOQwIw92IQEohevt3L33e6Qg7PuOGAV8QFWMdtdAtPBz7oyFasKHExNb zPiyWPCD7uRuqb8D2Bxzk2PVgk9DfmFiqmbeRkZRiQkPxDZyBgCvGsKoyaIoKEyB7/wu9Xuaa QHjmTF2Enlj4+sPr4U5dWO9KGJHGfW16LaI1iuLb50T7CgR3xEd2ocaFNlTByXTzY9P/I9PdJ RHdtDidLQRSiKgESvmUOH7UJX7nJPvVx9a6YVp3iXGuIGVBfV3WHo5jd/C99MuTQ3NNgwL9Et w8laq5otKcBQ30GhPNmH0aZWdvNOifcHZ0WxVsRpYp5z0w3G33zZ9NhRnBGcdlJTdmEtIuFE1 zsATbfPAlMETwYx49sThPHp9mJHl7Vit+cOw7qiG86S1WlyVgtWsb3BDn3/Kc6Pj68yZ8apUQ 9f3B6kqJ8GoVJoMyQdsnM4hgahwbT8qDDTVs+zlgbGbuhayZnOsDCQpNJJmeUcugY06hTmDwc YpGij4+OKKtxLj637B2w2feujdu12zXyjKHnP6UUX3K272EHMSCkVi5aNOrE9Yn1tv1fYlmmj WlhcDJb01Z7HEwY4AzddvHUwCvj8dOveI/LGMkj1QQQx7eowJzwzpK54o+CAQcHkd001pWi6K bkTm4WXRwBYtNpL+TFqITSl2gpgcPCNjM6039lBU2EHhRQw344JOhVp+ZFz3dH9jJ5oAC0DB Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=stephen.berman@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311576 Archived-At: On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 07:54:12 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Emanuel Berg >> Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 06:14:52 +0200 >> >> Richard Stallman wrote: >> >> >> 226 files, or 14%, use cl-lib at run time. >> > >> > These cases may be more or less problematical, but not >> > necessarily equally so. >> > >> > Which of those files are usually loaded when you start Emacs >> > with no arguments? Those we should certainly fix. >> >> I don't know, but at least one since you get the cl-lib stuff >> even at 'emacs -Q'. > > That is not true, since in "emacs -Q" I get this: > > (featurep 'cl-lib) =3D> nil > > both in GUI and TTY (i.e. -nw) sessions. I also get this in a freshly updated build from master both with -Q and with -Q -nw. In a freshly updated build from emacs-29 I also get it with -Q -nw, but with just -Q (i.e. the GUI) it returns `t', and evaluating `features' returns (time-date subr-x cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc...). And in a GUI build from master from October 8, (featurep 'cl-lib) returns `t' and features returns (time-date subr-x cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc...). In the GUI build from current master, features returns (rmc iso-transl tooltip...), so it looks like a recent change in master stopped loading subr-x at startup. Steve Berman