From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master bf0aeaa0d7a: Re-enable displaying `han' characters on Android Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2024 18:13:03 +0800 Message-ID: <87jzh0r1ow.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <86h6c5y39e.fsf@gnu.org> <87plqtf6m0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87le1hf5ed.fsf@yahoo.com> <8634noyelp.fsf@gnu.org> <877cd0smm8.fsf@yahoo.com> <86v80kwrpj.fsf@gnu.org> <87sevor2ut.fsf@yahoo.com> <86r0b8woq3.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5860"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 01 12:14:13 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sZSp3-0001S1-Ef for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 12:14:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sZSoP-0006h9-Rr; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 06:13:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sZSoO-0006gR-8e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 06:13:32 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic311-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.204]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sZSoH-00049j-PD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 06:13:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1722507203; bh=VRuZ/1g6VWuwepkqj6SKcCg78RRQvcSfpTjXuDFD31Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=JfHrbqYcHui9HQCcUt8YXf19Y5R3wH+wrNS/C1CA9DupggRZNtQ4U6OD4nVhBU0uBG60c73eLOEb3eq9sj6GJoSe2vXZvqr8dSBfBjVzszqWE2bttedSkFDGhj2ik3CBCHFA5vD9qhQJoOk2O2VnwdEKGsJnG1Cq23hMzu+JOC1on00W5rowlJ+1ugbL5gh+M2pRXT1TspZxWyBq+4HHxOLtqyIgrWBAGQO8Ip4PdFq9gCsWPBYNjPQ7yedcJC5RkzQk3ziYb95XadDoXJSWILLt91uPYmkEpfbCy0CwxArCI7LnyEMsprrLPg8XfIKRsr+wjI7xWG2zlQFpwvtq3A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1722507203; bh=qeE3yk2pNQzKrN/1pHVvmmBb1A31aJeoJJ2ymbNoKYL=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=qXVu6Kq6Gn9+kmjLvW1T1Sv965WHyG42kig6J2UfmxUU/hA+xZ0FMpkVJxMTC9JNxpK3xCHP/7GHOCI2fyA1vSQei5j4DokCmiqhrqgVx6Ko1Ge58HLM7By0kEwow4Nykvm4i0IPtNx1UV0d5DK13m+nxf1pDCLu/kjYrJmqw5+vW0QNPD4hVK6EEQksOUjWogjJfaWx5a4DGLIhyubr6SPRqlyRJj2pGjVGytFbsDZexRMGK3j8sV3HL6Nnp2+OfuCh058MWSct6OijqjsxYNu0X5gFBUIHdUx1Bw6gVZBCqXDoNYbTqBU8JlETZpbOHYkN1w+VrbtmKychwPmBfA== X-YMail-OSG: K2iJk0wVM1nj3V0VWVxVr2bxTCCTcrY7BCobLZBOlC.iOoG5G9erFwe.a53_J6o JtUtjGDBYF1La_kpXPdsI6yKvjvEzV87lWzFjYbiHRDt_2Ll098Aa6b1cdHzNVXqAF81.2jTKY30 4aLy7yTFULaaZ7_62QU2G1MaFTbA9m4hqLEtfkAL0DiLK3BZ4KsK9yJD4OvnkAoUGl1jS1nI9Clz L_9bgNvRFGhkNijd5fTddzHidKJ5Q8elhMJfhTZ51nV9elKSSaQpDtqF4u89XDkL_iNhobGuVvB3 QkqWy_k_O.2V8a4.Vq6s26y9FI9np9Y1fNZ.g3xu4FXYU9kIgcRJknA4M13s33qI4hniILhaPMq7 Kv8de1m21mviTPZSR3kvvquiw6nmtOyHnOEoNEHTyb5Yhukd4cyYbMy7Cij5d4tNuh54qLOTLp8P fO6BCjHiY1rDTWQNcVdceKOt3apEH8DPLMJc1RfLyanAm1gAZyLQV2OwqUyRprFnN.ABxN44Gipc ElcBe31DrbwBo6DgI6ZUIbFv4IfwIyIgXMPPjkZjkbk1950.QK5YB2G5NCzYAQ7R4gxaFeSHglsi JVHQ_yoapUtrkKckmit5e22oCpSFYPkYvEeWsAXmaI7vmISjujHqTTFn408Wz.F4uaQ22EbMTuSS LMq9cW15TqA4p13nKOJy7QSXBBqPRTWcmnoOxBi9oxoUBu5QjXirCf9QzY0e_8Xdn0H0uwLhF6YK 5dY8jWtqN0QrfqImfY93vbYROoNd6YLVih.xLz0HlIciYrZJV0QLdIzUKa544j9T5PMyqCg7EH0w jXoj1Nci8Tei4T8Vb0gtMHjZfTO7UCQ0MM2McrRA_B X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 8ba0232a-309e-4f94-982e-81fd2ca96cd6 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 1 Aug 2024 10:13:23 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-fc85cddf6-pbnn7 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3e105ce230b20aa653f53bb0a7c162c1; Thu, 01 Aug 2024 10:13:17 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86r0b8woq3.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 01 Aug 2024 12:56:36 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22544 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.204; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic311-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:322263 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Po Lu >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2024 17:47:54 +0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> > But users can add a font spec for 'han' to the fontset, cannot they? >> > And if they do, then the representative characters _are_ important, >> > aren't they? So I don't think we should remove those characters. >> >> Such an action would be pointless, as the fontset would not match any >> CJK font actually in existence, and it would break the Android build to >> boot. > > Then Android users should not do that. But users of other systems > could, and we should not prevent them from doing so. We don't prevent users from modifying script-representative-chars anywhere, no? >> If anyone seriously considers non-existent characters important >> enough to construct a font spec that matches them, he can easily amend >> script-representative-chars for himself or define another script. If >> these pages are opened, for example: >> >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+20000 >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2a700 >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2b740 >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2b820 >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2ceb0 >> >> in Mozilla (not to mention Emacs) on my GNU/Linux system or on Android, >> tofu is displayed, and there can hardly be said to exist an OS system >> that is better internationalized out of the box than is Android. The >> remaining characters: >> >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2f804 >> https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+1f210 >> >> are displayed correctly, but are barely attested or expected to be >> present by CJK users in practice, and U+1F210 is arguably rather a >> symbol than a proper character. > > On my Windows 11 system, I see all of them, and I didn't install any > additional fonts for CJK. So your assertion is simply not true. > Maybe your GNU/Linux system is outdated, or maybe GNU/Linux users with > CJK interests are supposed to install optional packages that you don't > have installed. This is an installation of Fedora Workstation 40 that was updated yesterday, and where all of the Noto font packages that are required for displaying CJK text are undoubtedly installed. The reason these characters are omitted from the suggested set of CJK fonts is that there is simply insufficient interest in these characters, and probably the same reasonining holds on Android, where users cannot install fonts at all, and where the entirety of these pages, save about a dozen, is tofu: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode_20000-2A6DF_CJK_Unified_Ideographs_Extension_B https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode_2A700-2B73F_CJK_Unified_Ideographs_Extension_C https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode_2B740-2B81F_CJK_Unified_Ideographs_Extension_D https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode_2B820-2CEAF_CJK_Unified_Ideographs_Extension_E https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Unicode_2CEB0-2EBEF_CJK_Unified_Ideographs_Extension_F Noto are apparently quite reluctant to support Extension B: https://github.com/notofonts/noto-cjk/issues/13 and they are the go-to source of Free CJK fonts nowadays.