Another Emacs icon

Another Emacs icon

[David PONCE]

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Hi All,

Attached you will find a new icon for Emacs.  This is just an idea, so
don't blame me for it, I am not an "artist" ;-)

There are two variants: with a transparent background (image names
with "-t" suffix), and with a light gray gradient background. Included
are 48x48 and 16x16 pixels images.  I can post the GIMP .xcf files if
needed.

These icons look nice on my KDE desktop ;-)

Sincerely,
David

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Re: Another Emacs icon

[Stefan Monnier]

> Attached you will find a new icon for Emacs.  This is just an idea, so

Not to be picky or anything (ahem), but really how did you end up deciding
to send those icons in the form of a tar.gz attachment rather than just
a few image attachment (which could then be readily viewed directly in any
normal MIME reader)?
And how did your tar.gz bundle end up labelled as application/x-php?


        Stefan

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Michael Cadilhac]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Attached you will find a new icon for Emacs.  This is just an idea, so
>
> Not to be picky or anything (ahem), but really how did you end up deciding
> to send those icons in the form of a tar.gz attachment rather than just
> a few image attachment (which could then be readily viewed directly in any
> normal MIME reader)?
> And how did your tar.gz bundle end up labelled as application/x-php?

  Hehe, not to mention that this is not a gunzip'ed file but just
  a tar ;-)

  Whatever! I really like these icons :-)

-- 
    Michael Cadilhac, a.k.a. Micha [mika] |
                    Epita/LRDE promo 2007 |  Please note that you should
  2 rue de la Convention | 08.70.65.13.14 |  s/-@t-/@/ my mail address.
94270 Le Kremlin Bicetre | 06.23.20.31.30 |

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Jason Rumney]

Michael Cadilhac wrote:

>>>Attached you will find a new icon for Emacs.  This is just an idea, so
>>>      
>>>
>  Whatever! I really like these icons :-)
>  
>
They look good with 24bit color. I wonder if they would still be 
readable with 8 bit or lower displays though.

I don't see the value in adding the word "Emacs" to the icon. Icons 
generally have the name of the program underneath or beside them anyway 
(unless they are in the top left of a frame, in which case the frame's 
titlebar should say what the program is), so it doesn't make sense to 
duplicate this information in the icon itself.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Lennart Borgman]

David PONCE wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>Attached you will find a new icon for Emacs.  This is just an idea, so
>don't blame me for it, I am not an "artist" ;-)
>
>There are two variants: with a transparent background (image names
>with "-t" suffix), and with a light gray gradient background. Included
>are 48x48 and 16x16 pixels images.  I can post the GIMP .xcf files if
>needed.
>
>These icons look nice on my KDE desktop ;-)
>
>Sincerely,
>David
>  
>
These are on the web now, on http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/NewIcons.html, 
together with the Gimp sources that David sent me. Look after David on 
the page.

They look very nice on w32 too. A very good finish. If you want to 
reveal some secrets about this, David, I would like to learn...

Personally I would like that kind of finishing on my suggestions with 
M-x. The small version Gian was kind to make for me is very good, but 
the 48x48 of my M-x picture does not at all have this nice finishing.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Juri Linkov]

> Personally I would like that kind of finishing on my suggestions with
> M-x. The small version Gian was kind to make for me is very good, but
> the 48x48 of my M-x picture does not at all have this nice finishing.

IMHO, your M-x is the best icon among other suggestions.  It has no
drawbacks mentioned for other icons (has no duplicate word "Emacs"
with the program title, etc.)

This icon has good connotations: M-x symbolizes the state of Emacs
waiting for a command from the user, like the Emacs icon is waiting
from the user to click on it.  And the location of M-x on the icon
corresponds to the real location of M-x at the bottom of the Emacs
frame in the minibuffer that makes this icon the quintessence of the
Emacs display.

I have only one question with this icon.  The gnu head on the icon is
looking to the right, whereas the gnu on the original picture (on the
splash screen) is looking to the left.  Such difference causes a
discomforting feeling of the icon image being mistakenly mirrored.
Could you turn its head to the same direction?

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Lennart Borgman]

Juri Linkov wrote:

>IMHO, your M-x is the best icon among other suggestions.  It has no
>
>  
>
...

>I have only one question with this icon.  The gnu head on the icon is
>looking to the right, whereas the gnu on the original picture (on the
>splash screen) is looking to the left.  Such difference causes a
>discomforting feeling of the icon image being mistakenly mirrored.
>Could you turn its head to the same direction?
>  
>
I could turn the head but that would make less space for M-x since M is 
taller than x.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Richard M. Stallman]

I see no sense in an Emacs icon that would say "M-x".
If it says anything, it should be "Emacs" or an "E".
A picture of a GNU makes no sense as the icon for Emacs in
particular.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Lennart Borgman]

Richard M. Stallman wrote:

>I see no sense in an Emacs icon that would say "M-x".
>If it says anything, it should be "Emacs" or an "E".
>A picture of a GNU makes no sense as the icon for Emacs in
>particular.
>  
>
I believe that whether some special symbol in the icon make sense 
depends on the circumstances. If something is wellknown I think other 
rules should be applied then otherwise. For most of us here on the list 
think that both M-x and the picture of the GNU make sense but for people 
who are not that familiar with GNU or Emacs it might not do that 
immidiately perhaps.

Since it seems to be somewhat difficult to find acceptable icons maybe 
it helps if we think about what kind of icons we want. I see two main types:

1) Informative icons - those showing what the program does
2) Logo style icons - more like a logo for a company

And of course many are a mix of those. Some examples of this are the 
logos for Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice etc. None of these include 
the name in the icons. Instead the icons has a style that should be 
easily recognizable. They all use some kind of symbolic memnonics 
adhering to what the programs do. In the case of OpenOffice they had 
been able to make several different icons with a common style for 
different subprograms, each with a piece of common mnemonics and a bit 
of dividing mnemonics.

In the case of Emacs perhaps the icon should use some mnemonic of this 
kind. It is however not so easy to tell what this should allude to. Some 
people might use Emacs for just creating documents. Other use it as a 
programming IDE. And for those really into it Emacs does a lot of 
things, mail, IRC, etc. Maybe it is a toolkit?

Another way of looking at this is to say that Emacs is different because 
it has history and fame. It is part of the GNU face so to say. Looking 
at it this way it is more a logo style icon we should have - probably 
with some GNU picture. And "M-x" of course has some fame too (IMHO). You 
have to know it to really use Emacs, of course. And M-x also alludes to 
the toolkit view. This way of looking at the icons is reflected in the 
current choice of splash screen.

Saying "Emacs" in the icon might seem to allude to the history and fame 
too. It is just that to me it seems unnecessary. You will not often see 
the icon without some text saying just "Emacs".

Well, you might guess my opinion ;-)  -- but I have tried to give our 
choices some structure here. HTH.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Chong Yidong]

> I see no sense in an Emacs icon that would say "M-x".

Actually, "M-x" could reasonably be mispronounced as "Emacs"...

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Richard M. Stallman]

    Actually, "M-x" could reasonably be mispronounced as "Emacs"...

That is cute.

The reason why using "M-x" does not appeal to me
is that I don't think of that as the central
feature of Emacs.  If someone asked me to name
the most important Emacs features, M-x wouldn't
make it on the list.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Robert J. Chassell]

   The reason why using "M-x" does not appeal to me
   is that I don't think of that as the central
   feature of Emacs.  ...

Indeed, "M-x" is designed for commands that do not have a short key
sequence.  It is for commands that are `left over' from frequent use.

I know I use a control command, like C-b, and a meta command, such as
M-f, much more frequently.

Indeed, when a command I use frequently does not have a shorter
keybinding already, I tend to bind it myself.  For example, I bound
`comment-out' to C-c ;

Not only is "M-x" misleading as an image, it is dangerous, since it
might lead a few novices to think that "M-x" should be used more often
than need be.

At least, with the image of a Gnu head, no novice is going to think
that Emacs is a Gnu, although they might wonder about the connection
between GNU Emacs and an operating system with a Linux kernel.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

Re: Another Emacs icon

[David Kastrup]

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> At least, with the image of a Gnu head, no novice is going to think
> that Emacs is a Gnu, although they might wonder about the connection
> between GNU Emacs and an operating system with a Linux kernel.

Please get your proselytizing module checked.  GNU is certainly not an
"operating system with a Linux kernel".  _GNU/Linux_ is a _variant_
(which happens to be more workable than "GNU proper" running off the
HURD) of the GNU operating system.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Lennart Borgman]

Robert J. Chassell wrote:

>   The reason why using "M-x" does not appeal to me
>   is that I don't think of that as the central
>   feature of Emacs.  ...
>
>Indeed, "M-x" is designed for commands that do not have a short key
>sequence.  It is for commands that are `left over' from frequent use.
>  
>
I can not really argue against you, you are definitively more experts 
than me on this. However I still think that M-x is a central feature. I 
do not think of those commands that I do not have a key binding for in 
my Emacs as "left overs". For me they are enhancements. And the ability 
to write enhancements to Emacs is a central feature ... ;-)

On the other hand I like David's latest icon. Maybe the small icon could 
be changed to just have an "E" instead of "Emacs" (which is a bit hard 
to read on the 16x16 icon)?

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Robert J. Chassell]

   ... I do not think of those commands that I do not have a key
   binding for in my Emacs as "left overs".

My wording was poor.  I meant `used less frequently' -- remaining
after giving out the keybindings.

Thus, I use C-t (transpose-chars) and M-t (transpose-words) fairly
frequently, but transpose-sentences less frequently.

I agree ... the ability to write enhancements to Emacs is a central
feature ...

--
    Robert J. Chassell
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Richard M. Stallman]

I like these icons pretty well, but I sure would like to get advice
from someone who knows more about them than I do.

Re: Another Emacs icon

[Mathias Dahl]

Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se> writes:

> These are on the web now, on
> http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/NewIcons.html, together with the Gimp
> sources that David sent me. Look after David on the page.

> Personally I would like that kind of finishing on my suggestions with
> M-x. The small version Gian was kind to make for me is very good, but
> the 48x48 of my M-x picture does not at all have this nice finishing.

I like the ones using a gnu head best. I think that Emacs is a good
representative, if not the best, of the GNU project.

No offence intended, but most of the icons containing text are quite
ugly. IMHO, of course.

I'd vote for a icon of the "logo" type rather than the
"informative".